who at losi designed the slider?

[sportracing]

i got good news and bad news for you.

1. good news, you put a sand rail suspension under a big wing. it will fly over glamis dunes great! :D

2. bad news, its not a circle track car, much less a sprint car at all.

here i am all excited about the local oval track in town. LOSI's cars in other genres of motor sports are pretty right on. but this one isn't even close.

1. only the wing makes it "look" like it might be a sprint car.
2. the rear tires are the same size = wrong
3. the suspension sits level on flat ground = wrong
4. locker?
5. and the biggest problem =

the suspension technology isn't even the same. really? because all the other types of LOSI cars at least make an attempt at the same type suspension within reason. 4 linked solid axles for rock crawlers for example.

right now you have slider racers trying to build sway bars. if you had just build the car that you were supposed to be modeling after, that would of alleviated the need for a sway bars.

this one really boggles my mind.

i am sure its a fun car, i would just take the wing off and say its modeled after a 1 seater score class 1 car or something of that effect. just race it on regular off road tracks with left and right turns with jumps since thats what its designed for. just an idea maybe instead of scrapping the whole project. ;)

i would love to see LOSI come out with a real sprint car! i would be all over it :D

the way it is now with "long travel" as if that's a good thing, its like those cheap "walmart" "rock crawlers" with rigid suspension. all they did was put "big tires" on and called it a rock crawler. thats what LOSI did with this car, put a wing on it and call it a sprint car. its really insulting to the circle track world and sprint.

can you imagine a LOSI car that is built for off road tracks to be built with little to no travel and super narrow. thats the way this car is, its backwards. there isn't supposed to be much travel on a sprint car, if any at all. its practically rigid. and you have to have the rear locked to rear steer the car around the track. that's what sprint cars do!

[SpaceGhost]

Wow. Feel better now? No company makes a R/C dirt oval sprint or late model with the suspension geometry of their full scale counter parts. Did you go off on their engineers on other manufacturers forums as well? When designing and manfacturing an R/C car, you have to take in account cost-effectiveness and practicality. I have yet to see ANY R/C car with torsion bars, floating rear ends with a Jacobs ladder, on the fly adjustable top wings, and so on. What next? Do you want the late models to have full 4-bar or Watts Linkage suspensions with 5th arms, bird cages and pull bars? The costs would go through the roof and there would only be a select few who would know even where to begin on the setup. So, I think Losi is on the right track. An afforable out of the box car, that represents a Sprint Car that people can ENJOY. If you think its silly or wrong, then call up Maxim, have them build ya a race ready roller, slap an engine in it and go hog wild. The people at Losi are doing a fine job. So appreciate what they are doing and have fun with racing what we have.

[Otis Campbell]

Having both a "real" Late Model (Warrior) and Sprint Car (J & J) in my shop, I, too, think it would be cool to have the same suspension in RC form but I realize that recreating these suspension setups isn't very practical in RC scale. The number of setup combinations for a 4-bar RC Late Model alone would be out of control--just like it is for their "real" couterparts.

My follow-up question, however, is why wouldn't it work...? If money was no object and I replicated the suspension for each car in 1/8th scale to fit these cars, would it work? My thoughts are no. Unless you replicate everything--the chassis (including flex), the engine location, the weight of the driver and fuel in their exact location, the weight at each wheel, the higher center of gravity, the power-to-weight ratio, etc.--a 4-bar or torsion bar suspension on these cars would not work.

With that said, I'm really more interested in the L8ight Model and I think it would be cool if some of the characteristics would carry over from the real thing. For example, what would happen if you factored in rear-steer in these cars? With the independent rear, that wouldn't work anyway. It would be neat to rig up a movable link or pivot connected to a servo that you tie to the steering channel so it moved the axis of both rear wheels in conjunction with steering or while going around the turn. This would be faster, I think, and it would make the attitude of the cars more realistic as it would appear that the cars have their tail hung out. You could also work some lift into the left rear which would also look more realistic and possibly make the car faster by adding bite to the LR tire...as long as this didn't cause the car to push too bad.

Am I totally out of my mind or would there be any way that rear-steer would work in this car?

Otis

[SpaceGhost]

Otis, I do not have experience with the L8ight, but in my 20+ yrs of experience R/C cars can simulate a rear steer situation. I do this with my CW late models all the time. You do this by adjusting you rear caster blocks. Positve caster on the Rear wheels (wheel travels in an upward and to the rear motion upon compression). So when you are rolling over on the right rear the wheel base will extend and with the left rear dropping the left side wheel base will shorten. Same theory as on your Warrior but applying it via a different method. Now its been a while since I have run a 4 bar setup as I run Rayburns and prefer a Z bar setup, but the axle wrap provided from the birdcages on a 4 bar is something that would be hard to replicate on an R/C car. And to touch on your point about chassis flex. In R/C we do deal with that quite a bit. That's the reason for different composites and chassis stiffening. But it is a totally different dynamic of flex. You are spot on with the weight dynamics and one everybody overlooks is braking. Nitro cars kind of replicate Sprint car rear brakes if you use your imagination, but brake bias front to rear and right front shut offs as you very well now from slinging dirt are a MAJOR factor in your setup. That would be so hard to impliment in 1/10th scale racing. But that is my $.02

[sportracing]

The people at Losi are doing a fine job. So appreciate what they are doing and have fun with racing what we have.

no i don't feel better, because i wasn't ranting or upset. i want to know what is the deal with this car. LOSI does a good job on other RC cars, why not this one?

and i don't follow your logic....so what your saying is, LOSI should just make a chassis roller. then put a truck body on it and call it a "rock cralwer", put a fomula 1 body on it can call it KART car, or a trophy truck body on it and call it a trophy truck RC car.

thats the kind of RC cars that are at walmart. i hold LOSI to a higher standard and that why i started this thread.

so you want us to just enjoy whatever car they make and not have an opinion about it all. no desire for certain features. just be okay with what ever they give us. that kind of thinking get does not make progress in any industry.

i can have fun with any RC car, did i say i couldn't? but i am not going to kiss LOSI's butt which is what you are doing. if they call it a sprint car, i want a sprint car and like i said, within reason. your definition of what they would put on a RC car is impractical, but i know you were exagerating to make your point. but deciding on what features to put on a RC sprint car isn't the topic. we can discuss that in another thread. this topic is, why was there no attempt to make this thing realistic? its not a rehtorical question.

now what i want to know from you space ghost, why is that concept so hard to swallow? do you really believe that everyone should be happy with what LOSI gives us as if they are some god of RCs and we should be so thankful that they are here to save us. i don't get it. why am i not allowed to ask for something i want to see in the future for RC cars?

[SpaceGhost]

5. and the biggest problem =

the suspension technology isn't even the same. really? because all the other types of LOSI cars at least make an attempt at the same type suspension within reason. 4 linked solid axles for rock crawlers for example.

right now you have slider racers trying to build sway bars. if you had just build the car that you were supposed to be modeling after, that would of alleviated the need for a sway bars.

this one really boggles my mind.


Torsion bars, jacobs ladders, full floating rear ends, pitman arms, and radius arms are not reasonable on a R/C vechicle. By the time you got all of this incorporated you would have a car that weighed 8lbs! Not even considering the additional costs. And what you are saying is that is exactly what Losi needs to do to make this right. I think it would be cool if ALL the cars were like that, sure would make it a lot more fun for those of us who know how to setup these types of suspension, but the fact of the matter is, these are difficult to setup, expensive to maintain, and very fragile. People would be complaining about bending radius arms everytime they flip a car. People would complain about how difficult the torsion bars would be to setup.

Now Losi has hit the target a bit closer with the Mini sprint in the lines of stagger and a car that looks more realistic, and due to the fact it does have scaled stagger in it we do run locked diffs, otherwise the car is too loose. So take a look at one of these.

[Otis Campbell]

I see both sides of this one and it doesn't hurt to ask for a more realistic car--but in the future, I'd try not to do it in a way that appears that you are bashing Losi or the designer of the Slider since this is their forum. (My 2 cents.)

Now, since this topic appears dead (somehow, I doubt it, though)... I'd like to hijack the thread and ask a different question to SpaceGhost:

I had an RC car when I was a teenager. It was a low-end hobby-store quality car (a grasshopper, lol) that I bought used. Now, 20+ years later, I'm just re-discovering these and hoping my wife gets me a nitro car for Christmas. Since I am a dirt oval guy in real life, naturally I want a dirt oval car. Since I do agree that the sprints aren't close enough to the real thing in realism and don't appear to be as popular, I would like a Late Model.

In doing research over the past few days, I've only found 2 late model chassis for sale--the L8ight and the OFN. Are there other manufacturers? Since this will be my first car in 20 years, which should I buy? I'm not looking to race immediately--for one, I don't think there is an oval track in our area...but I will probably build my own track in my back yard so I can play.

In addition to the chassis, will I also need the rest of the pieces. Do you guys have any suggestions on which radio, servos, engine, etc. to buy? (If I could get all or most of these items in kit form, that would be better...) $429 for a L8ight Model is a little pricy, so I'll likely get just the chassis for Christmas and the rest of the parts a little at a time over the next few months. (Somehow, though, I know I'll be buying this stuff sooner.)

Thanks for the advice...

Otis

[SpaceGhost]

Otis, are you only looking for 1/8th scale or is 1/10th an option for you as well? In the eastern half of the US 1/10th late models are VERY popular in both nitro and electric. We have many manufacturers to choose from and lots of sanctioning bodies as well. Since this is Losi's forums I do not want to mention other manufacuters but if you want to PM me, I will email you with some ideas of what we run with classes,rules and manufacturers.

[rkr66]

I agree with you space ghost mostly, i have seen a 1/4 scale sprint car just like the real thing, and it did work, but i realize it would not work on the smaller scales.but i would like to see losi change the 1/10 slider like they did the 1/18,it is the realest looking sprint ever made, and that includes custom works.however i wish losi would also take into consideration that there is a format out there to get us oval guys sideways and, backing them in the cornes just like the real thing and that would be 4 wheel drive versions late models and sprints with the gyro's it them. Oval guys should go to youtube and watch the videos on hpi drift box.

[MAVERICK165]

I race a slider in a spec and do really good. Im a top 3 driver every race night. The slider was built to raced as a spec type car and be affordable to anyone getting into the hobby. But when you start putting brushless systems in there they need some serious modifications to make them work. There is a guy at our track that convereted one with a mid motor mount, longer chassis and many more mods. But he can compete with custom works sprint now. The only complaint I have about the sliders is the factory motor and the chrome wheels. Ive gone through three motors almost back to back before the track agreed to let everyone run a serviceable type stock turn motor (27 turn). also the chrome wheel are fragile and reguire some work to remove the chrome from the gluing surface to make the tires stick. A redneck mentality will not make slider faster or better you got think in a retail aspec "whats sales" a scaled out overwhelming, complicated sprint car doesnt sale.

[sansne]

It is only when enthusiasts demand better stuff from car manufactures like LOSI and the rest that they take up the challenge and bring forth better and smarter stuff for us so I totally am for keeping on pressing them for better and smarter stuff! I am sure that they’ll sit up and do something about it in the near future!!

[dirtracer20]

There are quite a few chassis builders out there,mafia for the ofna,backlash for the losi,cyclone for losi,dynotech for ofna,kingshead for ofna,and Iam sure there's more,the mafia is built at tnt chassis,I see both sides of this one and it doesn't hurt to ask for a more realistic car--but in the future, I'd try not to do it in a way that appears that you are bashing Losi or the designer of the Slider since this is their forum. (My 2 cents.)

Now, since this topic appears dead (somehow, I doubt it, though)... I'd like to hijack the thread and ask a different question to SpaceGhost:

I had an RC car when I was a teenager. It was a low-end hobby-store quality car (a grasshopper, lol) that I bought used. Now, 20+ years later, I'm just re-discovering these and hoping my wife gets me a nitro car for Christmas. Since I am a dirt oval guy in real life, naturally I want a dirt oval car. Since I do agree that the sprints aren't close enough to the real thing in realism and don't appear to be as popular, I would like a Late Model.

In doing research over the past few days, I've only found 2 late model chassis for sale--the L8ight and the OFN. Are there other manufacturers? Since this will be my first car in 20 years, which should I buy? I'm not looking to race immediately--for one, I don't think there is an oval track in our area...but I will probably build my own track in my back yard so I can play.

In addition to the chassis, will I also need the rest of the pieces. Do you guys have any suggestions on which radio, servos, engine, etc. to buy? (If I could get all or most of these items in kit form, that would be better...) $429 for a L8ight Model is a little pricy, so I'll likely get just the chassis for Christmas and the rest of the parts a little at a time over the next few months. (Somehow, though, I know I'll be buying this stuff sooner.)

Thanks for the advice...

Otis

[badassrevo]

I really like my Slider, it performs great on a dirt oval. :)

[slider27s]

I started racing 1/18 scale sliders when they first came out. They broke WAY TOO easily. When the 1/10 scale came out it was like - FINALLY! Now I agree that they are not really scale yet for those of us who will never race them in "real life" they are a lot of fun. We have twin boys who are 6 who have been racing since they were about 4. One of theme is pretty good with the 1/10 Losi Slider he races. My perspective is that if the hobby is to survive it needs young blood. It's enough to keep them focused for a few minutes let alone a few hours at a racetrack on a Tuesday night. I'm disappointed that Losi is not changing the 1/10 slider to mirror the 1/18 scale. They did a nice job with those, but the class is dead here in Green Bay.
Great discussion folks!
Thomas

[n10cities]

What Losi needs to do now is create a XXX Slider with scale dimensions. That car would rock!

With the bulletproof tranny and suspension, you would have a great foundation to make an awesome sprint car.