L8IGHT Model Race Roller

[Brent Redlin]

Feel free to post any questions on the Team Losi L8ight Model.

[Todd Hodge]

Cool avitar!

[Doug Gaut]

The L8ight has been doing really well here in the midwest and the kit setup works great.

One of the biggest questions I get is how to obtain the ride height settings that are on the posted setup sheets. What most racers do not realize is those settings are obtained with the body 'on' the car due to the weight of the body and additional spoiler. We measure from the setup board to the flat area where the droop screws contact the ch***is. In the front you will have to roll the car forward to the edge of the table and hold the tire in order to get the calipers underneath to the flat area but this will provide you with the most consitant settings.

Doug

[Jeff Harper]

One very cool thing about the Losi Leight Model is that there is alot of setup information readily available. Besides that, if you have specific setup questions or are looking to get your car handeling exactly to your liking, your in the right place because there are a lot of guys here with different driving styles, racing on different track surfaces which brings a broad range of knowledge together in one place to answere your questions!

So if you have handeling/setup questions, post up and someone will get you covered!

[Gary Kyes]

Hi Jeff,
I know the guys in the mid-west have experimented with raising the front of the body by cutting it and then reattaching it further up the nose. How much do you move it and what is the result?
Thanks,
Gary

[JGray]

This forum was long overdo! As for cutting the front of the body to move the splitter up. Put the body on a flat surface and mark a line 1/2" up, cut from front side of one wheel well all the way to the other wheel well and re-attach. The contours match up very well. Jeff Harper turned me on to this trick and it enables you to get the body down low.

[Gary Kyes]

How far up the nose do you move the part (1/2") you have cut off?
Thanks,
Gary

[Doug Gaut]

Gary, I cut mine a little differently. I measure up 3/8" from the flat part of the splitter and take a sharpie to mark it along the entire nose. Then take a piece of tape and run it around the nose to give yourself a cut line. Once you have it marked along the nose and around the corners to the front fenderwells take a dremel with a cutoff wheel to make your cut as this provides a clean finish. Once this is done I put the seperated part up to the body and make sure that it is centered as best you can so that the splitter follows the contour of the body. Now, on the left corner let the seperated splitter hang down below the body 1/8" and tape it in place. On the right corner raise the splitter anywhere from a 1/16 to an 1/8" and tape it in place. This not only gets the splitter moved up but also angles the splitter so the right front is higher than the left front allowing more chassis roll into the corners without the body hitting the surface. Once you feel comfortable with the location I tape it all in place. Now take a ruler and mark where you will drill your mounting holes starting from the center every 3/4" all the way around the nose to the corners. 3/4" is a little excessive but it does provide the strongest nose and if you start in the middle of the body you will have a screw right at the corners before the splitter turns towards the fenderwell. Once past the corner I start at the edge of the corner with a bolt and work towards the fenderwell opening. At the fenderwell opening there will be a 1/2" left so I put one extra screw right at the edge for added security. Once marked drill your holes and use 4-40 x 1/2" screws and aluminum lock nuts to bolt the splitter down starting at the center working your way out.

It does take a little time but in the end you will have a very strong nose that still retains the added downforce of the splitter and the ground clearance for loose dirt/rougher surfaces where you need the chassis roll for traction and the clearance for ruts and bumps that develop over the race day.

The modified nose does give up a little downforce on the nose over the stock body. On smooth/high bite surfaces leave the splitter in place for the most steering possible.

[Phil B]

Doug, Thanks for the help last Saturday, car was great Sunday and Tuesday night, needs a little time off and service now!

[shocker]

does anyone know if there is a plan for a lto chassis for the l8ight ???

[Tommyb]

Gary, I cut mine a little differently. I measure up 3/8" from the flat part of the splitter and take a sharpie to mark it along the entire nose. Then take a piece of tape and run it around the nose to give yourself a cut line. Once you have it marked along the nose and around the corners to the front fenderwells take a dremel with a cutoff wheel to make your cut as this provides a clean finish. Once this is done I put the seperated part up to the body and make sure that it is centered as best you can so that the splitter follows the contour of the body. Now, on the left corner let the seperated splitter hang down below the body 1/8" and tape it in place. On the right corner raise the splitter anywhere from a 1/16 to an 1/8" and tape it in place. This not only gets the splitter moved up but also angles the splitter so the right front is higher than the left front allowing more chassis roll into the corners without the body hitting the surface. Once you feel comfortable with the location I tape it all in place. Now take a ruler and mark where you will drill your mounting holes starting from the center every 3/4" all the way around the nose to the corners. 3/4" is a little excessive but it does provide the strongest nose and if you start in the middle of the body you will have a screw right at the corners before the splitter turns towards the fenderwell. Once past the corner I start at the edge of the corner with a bolt and work towards the fenderwell opening. At the fenderwell opening there will be a 1/2" left so I put one extra screw right at the edge for added security. Once marked drill your holes and use 4-40 x 1/2" screws and aluminum lock nuts to bolt the splitter down starting at the center working your way out.

It does take a little time but in the end you will have a very strong nose that still retains the added downforce of the splitter and the ground clearance for loose dirt/rougher surfaces where you need the chassis roll for traction and the clearance for ruts and bumps that develop over the race day.

The modified nose does give up a little downforce on the nose over the stock body. On smooth/high bite surfaces leave the splitter in place for the most steering possible.

Is there any rivets/screws showing on the outside.
A pic would be nice.

Tommyb

[Gary Kyes]

Hey Doug,
This is great information. It sounds like I could do some tuning with the body as well as the chassis. Raising the right front makes sense as it would allow lowering the body.

[Gary Kyes]

The L8ight has proven to very relaible and easy to tune for multiple track conditions including hi-bite foam racing. It looks like most of the rules makers are leaning toward buggy based chassis with limited modifications to help keep cost down. I expect we will look into a mild off-set option but will wait until we see what the rules dictate. We're not smarter than the guys that have been racing these cars for years so we'll wait and listen to what they have learned works best and is needed. In the mean time there are several specialty companies offering LTO chassis using the L8IGHT components for those that race where the rules allow such a configuration.

[Randy Jones]

Doug,

I was told you run the RC4Less springs on Dirt Oval. What setup you run? That is a cool idea on the front splitter too. Just got my L8 and trying to get it ready to make the maiden voyage.

Did you run this body mod at Chili Bowl Jr. last year? Everyone said your car was really good there.

[Doug Gaut]

Is there any rivets/screws showing on the outside.
A pic would be nice.

Tommyb


Tommy, glad you found the site. Yes, the heads of the screws do show. Here are a couple of pictures.

[Randy Jones]

You make the rear spoiler yourself? Looks good.

[Doug Gaut]

Doug,

I was told you run the RC4Less springs on Dirt Oval. What setup you run? That is a cool idea on the front splitter too. Just got my L8 and trying to get it ready to make the maiden voyage.

Did you run this body mod at Chili Bowl Jr. last year? Everyone said your car was really good there.

Randy, I have done some testing with the RC4Less springs this summer but I see you live in Indiana and I know your tracks are smoother with more traction than we normally have at the tracks I race at so your best bet would be to assemble your car with the kit setup and try it first as the kit setup is very stable. If that does not work then try the Lars Johnson setup or my Joplin setup as they are stiffer setups.

Just a note, while testing the RC4Less springs we found that the 6lb springs are very similar to a Losi green spring, 7lb springs are similar to the Losi white springs and 8lb springs are similar to the Losi grey springs.

I did run this body mod at the Chili Bowl.

Good luck with the new car, I am sure you will like it.

[Doug Gaut]

Yes, I built the spoiler myself. Its .030 lexan on the sides and the center brace with a .040 lexan spoiler. It measures 1 3/4" with a 1/4" gurney lip on the top. A taller spoiler will help with rear traction but can produce a push and any shorter will give more steering but can be too loose at times.

Thanks for the compliment.

[Randy Jones]

Thanks man. Appreciate your time and input. I will give the box setup a try and adjust from there. That is the best part, car is easy and quick to make changes to.

I will see ya at Chili Bowl this year? I am going there for work and I am going to work the Jr. race into my time there.

[Doug Gaut]

Yes, I will be there Randy. Make sure to come by and say "Hi".

If you need anything in the mean time stop back by here and ask away.

[Randy Jones]

Sure will man. I will give ya a yell if I have any ????????

[rattlr2]

is there any where to get list of springs and rates of losi springs for the leight
with part numbers?

[Phil B]

15mm springs

#5450-2.3 X 4.1 rate Red
#5451-2.3 X 4.4 rate Silver
#5452-2.3 x 4.7 rate Green
#5453-2.3 x 5.0 rate Black
#5454-2.3 x 5.2 rate White =L8ight Std Rear
#5455-2.3 x 5.6 rate Gray =L8ight Std Front
#5448 High rate Set
2.1 x 6.5 rate Purple
2.1 x 7.0 rate Orange
2.1 x 7.5 rate Yellow
2.1 x 8.0 rate Blue

[Matt Sunderlage]

Can't wait to hit the track with my L8 Model!!!!!!!!!!:)

[Doug Gaut]

15mm springs

#5450-2.3 X 4.1 rate Red
#5451-2.3 X 4.4 rate Silver
#5452-2.3 x 4.7 rate Green
#5453-2.3 x 5.0 rate Black
#5454-2.3 x 5.2 rate White =L8ight Std Rear
#5455-2.3 x 5.6 rate Gray =L8ight Std Front
#5448 High rate Set
2.1 x 6.5 rate Purple
2.1 x 7.0 rate Orange
2.1 x 7.5 rate Yellow
2.1 x 8.0 rate Blue

Thanks Phil!

One thing to keep in mind is that none of the springs are rated the same way from one mfg to another so an 8lb Losi spring is not the same as an 8lb RC4Less spring.

[Randy Jones]

That is one thing alot of people do not realize. Great info there Doug.

[ron1950]

Doug...took your advise on rc 4 less spring set up for a high banked 320 oval and while everyone was screeming athat they were lose,,,my car (the doug gaut look a like) was hooked up....qualed 3 but one the first heat...won the second heat and started on pole for the a main....bobbled and fell back to about 5th working my way back to third and got taken out by someone that wanted thrid more then me lol....anyway...thanks doug...i had also shared your advise with the eventual winner......Ron

[Doug Gaut]

Sounds great Ron. Sorry you where taken out when somebody wanted your small piece of the track. Seems the tracks are not big enough at times. ;)

Did you try the Losi spring combination I said would work too with the shock angle changes? If you get a chance can you go to the Losi site, download a setup sheet and email me what you guys ran this weekend? I would like to see it compared to what I have been trying on the smaller tracks.

[ron1950]

doug didnt get to try that flat track setup just the high banked fast track.....

[Gary Kyes]

I would highly suggest you try the short Losi hi-rate springs when you get a chance. A lot of guys here in the west are running these with both foam and rubber tires. BTW Doug's car is always real fast and he is an exceptional driver but an old guy like me needs a car that is a little more forgiving. We are trying to get a selection of setups on the site so all of you can find one you are comfortable with. It's great to hear you like the L8IGHT, good luck with the traffic.
Gary

[Chris K]

but an old guy like me needs a car that is a little more forgiving. We are trying to get a selection of setups on the site so all of you can find one you are comfortable with.Gary

That's what I'M talkin' about!!!!!!!

Will they be listed on the site as 'old guy setups'?????

But seriously guys, Gary is VERY humble - but from one 'old guy' to another - he's VERY fast!

[Hconcepts]

Set-ups are Sweeeeeeet!!!

[jim]

Can I join the old guys club here, I just started oval racing, what a kick, anyways, I figure the older the better you are and fifty is nifty and it's just a number:D

[Chris K]

Can I join the old guys club here, I just started oval racing, what a kick, anyways, I figure the older the better you are and fifty is nifty and it's just a number

OMG - 50???? It's such a LOW number I'm not sure that it qualifies from MY perspective..... :) Gosh, I've got SCARS older then THAT! ;) along with several aches and pains!!!!!!!

[Doug Gaut]

Jim, you guys are racing dirt oval in Alaska? That is so cool. Do you have any pictures? How is the L8ight working for you?




Chris, as long as you and Gary are a threat to win any A main, you are not old. Just seasoned. ;)

[Hconcepts]

i'm glad an pup.. and many & many A mains to wins to come!!! :p

[Phil B]

:D I'm starting to get some grey, does that mean I'm getting faster?

Been working the dirt in Lincoln,Hope you can make it back sometime this year Chris.

[Chris K]

:D I'm starting to get some grey, does that mean I'm getting faster?

Been working the dirt in Lincoln,Hope you can make it back sometime this year Chris.

I'm thinkin' that 'some grey' probably doesn't count - I had grey temples when I was 18.....

Glad to hear that Lincoln continues to evolve! I drove within 1/4 mile of there yesterday!!! BUT, sadly couldn't stop and race! AND, I'll try to take a minute on the way home tomorrow to check it out!

I think the only racing I'll get in this weekend is the Friday night show at Fastlane - just hope some of the other late models show up!!!!!

I'm really lookin' forward to racin' with you guys again! Timberline will run the oval next weekend (9/12/09) and then we'll ALL be in Joplin the weekend after!

[Doug Gaut]

:D I'm starting to get some grey, does that mean I'm getting faster?

Been working the dirt in Lincoln,Hope you can make it back sometime this year Chris.


Grey, I have that COVERED....wait, it has me covered! LOL

Let me know when your next event is. I want to make it up. Lars and I had planned on the $$ race before it was cancelled. Believe it or not September and October are filling up fast with race dates in Joplin and Tulsa so if you guys are going to have a race you better get it scheduled pretty quickly.

[Gary NJ]

Hi - I'm new to running LM8 - I'm running a converted buggy, not a factory L8ight. I'm still using offroad nitro diff settings - what will I expect to see as a change if I go to heavy diff oils like the setup sheets all call for? 350' runline oval with squared off corners, slight banking, baseball clay surface (some clay content for sure, but lots of sand as well). Rules require stock rubber DLM tires. Thanks guys! These cars are a major hoot to drive. As a 55+ guy the young guys with depth perception kick my azz in offroad, but I can hang with them in LM :rolleyes:

[Doug Gaut]

Gary, the reason for the thicker diff oils is due to the chassis roll from the heavier late model bodies and the limited traction from spec tires. With offroad diff oil weights the car will "diff" out in the corners when the weight transfers to the outside tires and unloads the inside tires causing a loss of traction. At this point the car will either spin out or push for a second till the weight transfers back to the unloaded tire. With the thicker oil the outside tire still has drive when the inside tire is unloaded keeping forward momentum.

If you are familiar with touring cars this will be easier to relate to. So far we found that anything over 125,000 in the front end causes a car to push on corner entrance similar to a spool and over rotates when you apply the throttle mid to exit. Lower weight in the front diff does provide more turn in but you lose steering mid to exit.

Thicker center diff oil around the 100,000 range will provide great acceleration but does tend to send more power to the rear wheels so on slick tracks this causes a loss of traction in the rear. Guys with heavy throttle fingers tend to have a loose car mid to exit with 100,000 + oil.
Lighter center diff oil in the 50,000 range is very forgiving and has a nice balance front to rear. If you like to turn the car by breaking the rear tires loose mid to exit go with the heavier center oil but if you like to keep the car straight and smooth or are racing on a slick surface the 50,000 is the way to go.

Thicker oil in the rear tightens the car up all the way around the corner. It can cause a push on corner entrance as well as a push on corner exit. Thinner oil frees the car up around the corner but can allow the left rear to diff while unloaded causing the car to over rotate. Here in the midwest our tracks have loose soil on the top and with 7,000 the car turned into the corners very well but the car would over rotate mid to exit making it very difficult to drive. 10,000 seems to be the best compromise between turn in and drive off the corner. I have experimented with 15,000 lately and found it to be okay on the higher bite tracks but on a slicker track the car pushes too much on corner entrance and since I like the heavier weight oil in the center the car actually floats on power mid to exit too much causing slower lap times. Much the same if you overtighten your touring car rear diff.

With all this said, I would try the 125,000 front/50,000 center/10,000 rear diff combo and go from there.

[Phil B]

Grey, I have that COVERED....wait, it has me covered! LOL

Let me know when your next event is. I want to make it up. Lars and I had planned on the $$ race before it was cancelled. Believe it or not September and October are filling up fast with race dates in Joplin and Tulsa so if you guys are going to have a race you better get it scheduled pretty quickly.

Not sure of any special events coming up, I-80 needs more electricity available and a little more lighting would be good for a night race.

Joplin:D and Tulsa..... Will have to get the group organized and road trip south, pretty happy with current car setup, still need some more wheel time with you faaast guys!

[Gary NJ]

Gary, the reason for the thicker diff oils is due to the chassis roll from the heavier late model bodies and the limited traction from spec tires. With offroad diff oil weights the car will "diff" out in the corners when the weight transfers to the outside tires and unloads the inside tires causing a loss of traction. At this point the car will either spin out or push for a second till the weight transfers back to the unloaded tire. With the thicker oil the outside tire still has drive when the inside tire is unloaded keeping forward momentum.

If you are familiar with touring cars this will be easier to relate to. So far we found that anything over 125,000 in the front end causes a car to push on corner entrance similar to a spool and over rotates when you apply the throttle mid to exit. Lower weight in the front diff does provide more turn in but you lose steering mid to exit.

Thicker center diff oil around the 100,000 range will provide great acceleration but does tend to send more power to the rear wheels so on slick tracks this causes a loss of traction in the rear. Guys with heavy throttle fingers tend to have a loose car mid to exit with 100,000 + oil.
Lighter center diff oil in the 50,000 range is very forgiving and has a nice balance front to rear. If you like to turn the car by breaking the rear tires loose mid to exit go with the heavier center oil but if you like to keep the car straight and smooth or are racing on a slick surface the 50,000 is the way to go.

Thicker oil in the rear tightens the car up all the way around the corner. It can cause a push on corner entrance as well as a push on corner exit. Thinner oil frees the car up around the corner but can allow the left rear to diff while unloaded causing the car to over rotate. Here in the midwest our tracks have loose soil on the top and with 7,000 the car turned into the corners very well but the car would over rotate mid to exit making it very difficult to drive. 10,000 seems to be the best compromise between turn in and drive off the corner. I have experimented with 15,000 lately and found it to be okay on the higher bite tracks but on a slicker track the car pushes too much on corner entrance and since I like the heavier weight oil in the center the car actually floats on power mid to exit too much causing slower lap times. Much the same if you overtighten your touring car rear diff.

With all this said, I would try the 125,000 front/50,000 center/10,000 rear diff combo and go from there.

Doug, thanks for taking the time to write up such a detailed explanation - it was really helpful. My car turns int really well compared to the other guys, but I do have a lot of mid to late push and I can't pick up the throttle as much as I need - I can see now where my offroad diff weights are contributing to that. With the light weights I am now running the car is pretty easy to drive, but I don't have the corner speed and corner exit speed I need. I'll sneak up on the weights because I don't want the car to become a handful...as Dirty Harry would say, a man's got to know his limits ;)

Thanks again!

[jim]

Hey Doug, This is our first year for dirt oval so we are still learning as we go, I should have some pics from this coming weekend that I will post up for you on Sunday. I also frequent dirtoval.com. I sent you a couple of pm's on there with some questions about my set-up on the car. I go under the user name losi_ak there. I am starting to get the car dailed in and I also added a 2" spoiler and that really made a difference on the car. I only had 100,000 wt for the front diff at the time I was building the car, but I do have the 125000 now and I am going to give it a try.
Have you every been up here before? If not you really need to come and experience.
Jim









[QUOTE=Doug Gaut;2101]Jim, you guys are racing dirt oval in Alaska? That is so cool. Do you have any pictures? How is the L8ight working for you?

[Randy Jones]

I wonder if the new 12* caster blocks will help these cars out on the track? That would help mid to exit cornering.

[jim]

Ha, that's petty funny Chris, I hear ya on the aches and pains also. Nothing that a little ibprofren won't take care of. I read thru your bio and you and I have quite abit in common. I have around 30 yrs in the transportation industry also, I retired at the end of 06, took a year off and then went to work for the city that I live in, nothing like having a goverment job to top of the retirement. I spent 20 of those years at Carlile transprotation systems as a terminal Manager. I don;t know if you watch much tv, but the company I retired from is the same one on the history channels ice road truckers. Anyways, like I wrote early this age thing is just a number;
Jim


OMG - 50???? It's such a LOW number I'm not sure that it qualifies from MY perspective..... :) Gosh, I've got SCARS older then THAT! ;) along with several aches and pains!!!!!!!

[Doug Gaut]

Jim, I checked and did not see anything in my message box so hopefully I answered them but if not or if you have any other questions please feel free to put them on here because as we all learn more about these cars the more fun we will all have at the track.

A rear spoiler is a huge tuning tool that helps with the balance on the car. I also run a 2" rear spoiler and if I go 2 1/4 my car will pick up a small push and if I go 1 3/4 its a little loose. One time a 2" section of the rear spoiler got broke on the right rear corner from tapping a wall and after that the car was so loose mid to exit you would have thought something was broken on the car.

As for Alaska, I have never been west of Colorado unfortunately but the wife has been telling me for the past 8 years she wants to go on an Alaskan cruise so one of these days I will be up that way. Now trying to explain why my luggage is so heavy will be an interesting explanation. LOL

Doug

Hey Doug, This is our first year for dirt oval so we are still learning as we go, I should have some pics from this coming weekend that I will post up for you on Sunday. I also frequent dirtoval.com. I sent you a couple of pm's on there with some questions about my set-up on the car. I go under the user name losi_ak there. I am starting to get the car dailed in and I also added a 2" spoiler and that really made a difference on the car. I only had 100,000 wt for the front diff at the time I was building the car, but I do have the 125000 now and I am going to give it a try.
Have you every been up here before? If not you really need to come and experience.
Jim









[QUOTE=Doug Gaut;2101]Jim, you guys are racing dirt oval in Alaska? That is so cool. Do you have any pictures? How is the L8ight working for you?

[Doug Gaut]

From Todd's explanation of the handling characteristics when they installed the 12deg caster blocks I can only think it will improve the late models handling as well. I plan to get some when they are available.

The axle caps are something else to look check into when they are released. I can see where these will help with dirt in the axles but also save the outer walls at the local raceway from when we all slide up into them taking chunks out. Track owners will be very appreciative. I also think they will look really cool on the cars.

[Matt Sunderlage]

Has any one run the Dynotech shocktowers with JRX-S shocks?

Just wondering, that is a really hot set-up here in WI.

Should have mine tomm then I can get my L8 done.:)

12% castor blocks sweet!! What degree are the stock ones out of curiosity????

[Randy Jones]

I beleive stock is 10*.

Yeah, I agree Doug. They should help the car and I am definitely getting a set of blue caps for mine.

[Joe F]

Thanks for all the awesome info posted here. Definately going to help at the track the next time out.

[tmbruggink]

Im new to racing rc cars but have owned them before. I purchased a late model race roller and its ready to hit the track. I also purchased the high rate spring kit my local track has a lot of bit where is a good starting spot for my shock oil and springs. Thanks for all help.

[Phil B]

Im new to racing rc cars but have owned them before. I purchased a late model race roller and its ready to hit the track. I also purchased the high rate spring kit my local track has a lot of bit where is a good starting spot for my shock oil and springs. Thanks for all help.

You might want to ask the local racers what combo works well there, most are willing to help out with track specific setups.

[Alan]

Anyone on here got photos of the L8IGHT?

[Randy Jones]

Mine is in pics thread.

[Joe F]

Anyone on here got photos of the L8IGHT?

What kind of pics are you looking for? body on or off? detail shots? action shots?

[cruiser63]

Hey Doug is Losi working on a new DLM tire since the factory burned down?
The reason I ask is my local hobby shop says that the DLMs are discontinued.
And Horizons website says that the premounts LOSA17758 and just the tires LOSA7758 are also discontinued. :eek:
Thanks

[Gary Kyes]

Hi Cruiser,
Losi hasn't forgotton about all you late model racers out there. We have been working on a replacement for the GRP tire for some time now. We hope to be able to offer more information in a few weeks and ask that you all be patient. One of our greatest concerns is to insure that there will not be interuptions in supply and the consistancy of the product will be the best possible. I think you will all be pleased.
Gary

[jim]

Gary any chance losi will also offer tires in foam???

[cruiser63]

Hi Cruiser,
Losi hasn't forgotton about all you late model racers out there. We have been working on a replacement for the GRP tire for some time now. We hope to be able to offer more information in a few weeks and ask that you all be patient. One of our greatest concerns is to insure that there will not be interuptions in supply and the consistancy of the product will be the best possible. I think you will all be pleased.
Gary


Thanks Gary...
Can you tell us anything about them?? Will they be anything like the DLMs?
Will they be permounts or just tires and foam??
I like it when you can get them either way. But thats just me.
Thanks

[shocker]

Hey Gary.......is there a left offset chassis in the works also ?????????

[rattlr2]

what is the proper way to groove foam tires for clay i know groove around but how deep are the grooves and do you go across the tire also. seen where matt and allen run grooved tires at big bill's just wondering the proper way of doing it

[mcsquish]

What kind of pics are you looking for? body on or off? detail shots? action shots?


I'm also intersted in some photos. I have been kicking the idea of converting a L8ight platform into a GT on-road car. I have been thinking about this for some time and think it might make a good GT car if I can figure out how to convert it.

[Doug Gaut]

Hey Gary.......is there a left offset chassis in the works also ?????????


Not at this time. The car works so well as it is there really is no need for one.

[Doug Gaut]

what is the proper way to groove foam tires for clay i know groove around but how deep are the grooves and do you go across the tire also. seen where matt and allen run grooved tires at big bill's just wondering the proper way of doing it

I have not ran foams on the L8ight yet but when we run foams on sprints we only cut the grooves about 1/16" to an 1/8" deep at the most. Any more than that and the tire will chunk out. What I do is measure where I want the grooves to be and mark them with a silver sharpie. The silver marks will show up well while the tire is turning on the lathe. Then put the tires on a tire truer at a slow speed and use a hacksaw blade to cut the circular grooves. Once done take a dremel with a wore down cut off wheel to make the cross cuts. A wore down cut off wheel is easier to control the depth of the cross cuts. The less grooves the less grip but also less tire wear. More grooves soften the tire up more so you get more grip but this also accelerates tire wear and the possiblity of chunking them in a wreck.

NOTE: Always wear safety glasses!

[Doug Gaut]

Thanks Gary...
Can you tell us anything about them?? Will they be anything like the DLMs?
Will they be permounts or just tires and foam??
I like it when you can get them either way. But thats just me.
Thanks

I know you will be pleased Cruiser! ;)

[RcRick]

Guys we have a new Dirt oval starting up,I just got a new L8 ,anything I need to do out of the box other than than the normal going over?

Also will the 2.0 radio tray from my buggy work?
Thanks,Rick.

[Doug Gaut]

The radio tray should work.

We normally use an aluminum servo arm for the steering instead of the plastic arm is about all. Oh, we also raise the right front body mount by one hole compared to the left front so the car can roll over in the corners without the body hitting.

Optional parts would be 15-16-17 clutch bells, two composite and two aluminum clutch shoes with two black springs on the composite shoes and green springs on the aluminum shoes, sway bar set from the original 8ight-not the 2.0 buggy and the hi-rate spring kit.

Glad to hear of another new track. Shoot some pics when its done.

[RcRick]

Ok Thanks Doug good info,Its going to be a nice size track with about a 320ft runline and wide sweeping turns.Some early pics can be seen here vrpracing.org

[SHACK]

Can anyone tell me what shock oil comes in the kit? It works pretty good but I need to know where to start when I need to make changes.

[Doug Gaut]

50wt front and 40wt rear.

[Hconcepts]

Mr. Gaut, what would a thicker center diff oil give me?? Thanks

[racer357]

Going heavier in the center diff will direct more of the power to the rear of the car when on power. In theory it should increase rear forward grip when on power but make the car loose in low bite situations.

If you look back to page 2 or 3 in this thread doug offered a real good write up regarding diff oils.

[Jeff Harper]

Brian (Hconcepts), on loose dirt tracks (like what you and I typically run on) we tend to set the cars up with as much grip as we can get (on our spec tires) and then drive the car with the throttle a little and with this in mind, what I have experienced is with the 50K fluid in the center (stock center diff fluid), my car is very stable on the slicker tracks where too much power to the rear wheels makes it hard to keep the rear end under the car BUT on a high bite track like Joplin, the 50K is not putting enough power to the rear wheels and then I cant keep the car rotating through and off the corner with the throttle like I want. This made my car a little "pushy" coming off in Joplin but it is fine on a slicker track like Adams Creek.

The 50K in my opinion, is much more forgiving for the slick tracks or for a person that lets say is "Throttle Happy" :D

My last two trips to Joplin, I went with the Losi 125K fluid in the center diff (same as whats in the front diff) and sure enough, I was able to keep my car rotating through the corner with throttle input just like I wanted and I was able to stay lower coming off the corner because of the extra "on throttle" rotation I had.

The 125K center diff fluid makes the car more aggressive on throttle so its definitely something that can be a good thing and it can be a bad thing as well in the wrong conditions or in some "Throttle Happy" hands.

[Hconcepts]

Jeff, this is almost like me sitting next to you telling you what to type!!! lol.. My car is a Rocket at Adams Creek, But at joplin it was a tug boat.. :(.. I hope your going to Muskogee Friday night and get ready for me to pick your brain!! :D

[Jeff Harper]

I am planning on being there Friday night and I will be glad to help!

[hitman1965]

Wondering if we know the date of the tire info release?

[racer357]

I heard from a reliable source this weekend at the Horizon Shootout, that they are not satified with the wear of the tire that is being tested now. It is apparently very fast on the track but wears much faster than the tires we have now. I am sure Losi is working hard to get a tire that provides good grip and good value as well.


In the meantime I would suggest a set of ofna rubber to get you by. That way you can keep racing!

[hitman1965]

I just ordered two new sets from a hobby shop in Austria. They are on different rims but the same tires.

I would like to see a tire start up like AKA come out with a tire for us. How cool would it to get a tire that looked like a real Hoosier to run on DLM.

Hitman

Just FYI all. The real part number for the tire and wheel combo from GRP is GMW01E.

This is the exact tire just on a white dished rim.

[Hconcepts]

but isn't that the Rally tire. and it's a harder compound??

[Doug Gaut]

Racer357, I mean this with no disrespect but the information you were given is not accurate. While I cannot go into detail rest assured the final product will meet with approval.

Doug

[Doug Gaut]

but isn't that the Rally tire. and it's a harder compound??

Brian, the rally tires are on a white spoked rim and are made from a harder compound rubber. If you look closely on the GRP tire used for dirt oval racing there is a dimple on the side with an "E" in it stating the compound the tire was molded in so my guess it that Hitman is right. Seems like a long distance to obtain tires but I fully understand why.

[Hconcepts]

Hmmmm.... Thanks

[racer357]

Doug,

You are the inside track for the late models. Give the guys looking for tires a time frame when they can expect to be able to buy new tires.

Due to the tire problem we are considering the SC8 stock tires in my area as a SPEC tire. We havent been abe to test them too much yet due to getting ready for the shootout.

The set up info you offer here is great, and we appreciate it.

Thanks
Steve Christian

[racer357]

Thought I would post up some shots of mine before I get it dirty!!

[hitman1965]

they are all rally tires in Europe. The "A" compound is called extra soft.
the "E" compound is called rain soft.
I have both and side by side the only difference I see is that the wheel and the foam inserts are different. The tire itself feels very much the same compound. I don't think there is much difference at all. But then again I may be wrong Brian.

Just FYI the wheel is far stiffer and the foam inserts are harder in the Rally wheel from Europe.

Doug,

On the distance thing here is what happened. I found a guy in Austria that had them, contacted him and purchased them via paypal. With fees and shipping from Europe as well as conversion to Euros. I ended up paying $106 delivered to Ohio for 4 pairs. So 8 tires for 106. Here in the spring I bought them (Losi version) from an online hobby shop for 29.95 plus shipping. So lets say I paid 5 for shipping I had almost 125 in 8 tires....So the way i see it I don't think its a bad deal. Took 11 days to get them.

[Jeff Harper]

Your car looks COOL racer357!

[racer357]

Jeff,

Thanks, I am super happy with Fastlane-graphix.com. I cannot wait to get it dirty!

Sonny told me about a body mod you are doing around the bottom of the body that makes them look even more realistic.

I know about cutting the nose, what else are you doing? I think he is talking about bending a lip around the bottom?

If you could post up a photo that would be great.

A group of us from Indiana are planning to come out for the Chili Bowl JR. I look Forward to rubbing paint (or wraps) with you FAST guys!!


Would you happen to have a template for the spoiler you build for the Losi body? That thing looks awesome. If you do could you email it to rcracer357@gmail.com

With the late models taking off like they are I kinda wish I still lived in Wichita, Joplin's track looks like a blast.

[bones]

I have been playing around and running the losi 8ight 2.0 buggy and just purchased a l8ight online today i was wondering if yall can tell me what is the best motor and pipe to get to run on the l8ight to be competitive. New into dirt oval racing

[racer357]

Bones,

It is difcult for any of us on the forum to answer that for you. The best motor could be very specific to where you plan to race as some tracks have a spec engine that is required and some areas are open to anything.

I would recommend checking in your area with other racers and see what is common. That way others will have the same engine as you and can offer good advice.

The Dynamite 053 pipe is a good choice to start a pipe collection with as it works on a vast array of engines. It is a very universal pipe and at a low price as well.

I am in central Indiana and will race anywhere. I personally have a novarossi 821b on my car at this time with a Nova Rossi 9853 pipe. I am also looking to buy a Dynamite platinum .21 and Dynamite 053 pipe to run at my local races as most of the guys I race with run that combo and I think it would be more fun if my powerplant was more spec to my competitors.

[bones]

Thanks for the info I phrases my question wrong anyway just wondering what size motor ie .21 or .28 Just getting track started here and not many drivers so i ask them and got several answeres from the losi 350mto some run losi 454 but the majority told me to get a dynamite platnum .21 to power the l8ight model. This is going to be my winter project car so I sstill have time to talk to some more drivers at some different tracks that I am going to try and get to to check out what all they doing

[Jeff Harper]

Racer357, I will try to get a photo up later today but basically, I am just cutting the nose off and moving it up .500" and then bending a lip on the lower edge of the body .300" from the bottom. This kind of stiffens it up as well. As far as the rear spoiler goes, I could probably send you a trace of my templates or something?

[racer357]

Thanks Jeff.

I did cut my nose off and raise it up 3/8" and tilt it. I made up my own wing but it is not quite as cool looking as yours. I got to run the car Friday evening and all I changed was the rear sway bar and the car handled excllent. now that the body mods are done tokep the right front from hitting I am looking fwd to this Friday's race night.

[SHACK]

I rebuilt my diffs. yesterday and had a very hard time removing the silicone grease from the housing and internal componets. Does any one have a prefered technique or cleaner that removes the silicone?

[DJ24966]

I'm looking into this car but I'm fairly new to the entire r/c deal. I have a LST XXL so I have never dealt with the installing of the electronics or any of that mess.

How hard would all of this be for me?

Thanks

[Doug Gaut]

Thanks for the info I phrases my question wrong anyway just wondering what size motor ie .21 or .28 Just getting track started here and not many drivers so i ask them and got several answeres from the losi 350mto some run losi 454 but the majority told me to get a dynamite platnum .21 to power the l8ight model. This is going to be my winter project car so I sstill have time to talk to some more drivers at some different tracks that I am going to try and get to to check out what all they doing


Bones, engine size will be determined by track size and also available traction. So far in Nebraska, Kansas, Western Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas a .21 is more than enough power due to the surfaces not being packed tight. We have loose dirt on top and even when the tracks slick off there is no where near enough traction to put the power of a .28 down. We also use the kit or Ofna tires and no side dams. Now if you go up to Illinois, North Carolina or Tennessee many guys use .28s due to the different dirt and rules package. The tracks are pretty packed down and have great traction but many tracks also allow foam tires and side dams which also increase overall traction meaning you could put down the power of a .28.

Your best bet is to see what kind of surface you will be racing on, how big the track is going to be and lastly what rules the track is going to race under.

Biggest thing to keep in mind, the cars can only go so fast in the corners and if you have too much power much of the power simply goes up in tire spin which is a major loss of grip and speed. I find its easier to run less power and dial the car in than to overpower the car and slide all over the track. While these things in a 4wheel drift look awesome, its not the fast way. ;)

[Doug Gaut]

I'm looking into this car but I'm fairly new to the entire r/c deal. I have a LST XXL so I have never dealt with the installing of the electronics or any of that mess.

How hard would all of this be for me?

Thanks

DJ24966, the manual does a great job of showing you how it all fits together. The radio gear is pretty straight forward. If you do find a few small issues ask here or talk to a veteran local racer as I am sure they would be more than happy to help you out.

[bones]

I am running down south in the Mississippi delta From what I can tell about the track so far is that it is around 330-340ft straightaways and the track starts out packed but the top breaks loose pretty quick and gets loose. This is a brand new track and only has run about 3 races on it so far and most of the drivers and cars are somewhat new to dirt oval. Mostly off road guys converting over to dirt oval. But talked to some guys around 160 miles south of me and that is what they suggested to use is the dynamite .21 just did not know much about this motor

[Doug Gaut]

Steve, just a little while longer on the tires. ;)

We have two new tracks locally. Newton has a nice track and now there is a new outdoor oval in Hutchinson that from what I saw will be fun to race at as well. You left just a little too soon.
As for Joplin, its one of the best outdoor loose dirt oval tracks I have ever been too. Its just like a big track too where its never the same. There are times all three grooves are there, other times the middle groove gets rough so you run the top and bottom and even other times the top groove is not there but the bottom and middle groove is working well. No matter what happens with the track you get a fast track to race on, great accomodations and cool racers to hang out with.

[Doug Gaut]

Bones, 330ft straights or overall run line? If the track is loose personally I would not want a .28 engine. A good .21 would be your best bet geared around 17/48 or 17/46.

I use Dynamite Platinum .21s and have more than enough power for all the tracks I race at. Many of us that run in the NSCS (nitro sprint car series) use the Platinum .21s coupled to a Platinum 007HT torque pipe or the smoother 053MR pipe. This is not to say that a Losi 350 engine coupled to an RE10 bottom end pipe or an RE11 smooth power pipe would not work just as well.

[DJ24966]

DJ24966, the manual does a great job of showing you how it all fits together. The radio gear is pretty straight forward. If you do find a few small issues ask here or talk to a veteran local racer as I am sure they would be more than happy to help you out.

Thanks, I may go for the mini version of the late model first just to see how I like dirt, my dad has experience with building planes from the ground up so the 2 of us could figure it out you'd think. I just don't want to spend money on something I'd never figure out or whatever. I'll probably be back with questions sooner or later (I hope so anyway)

[bones]

Thanks for the info Doug you have been extremely helpful. I think I will start with the .21 and see how it goes from there. If i see the track can handle and I can handle the bigger .28 I will get it later and stick the .21 on my buggy or use as a backup motor ether way is a win win situation.:D

[CCRCspeedway.com]

Sure wish they would give us some insight on the tire issue .......

[Doug Gaut]

Soon, very soon. Trust me, its being addressed.

[Doug Gaut]

See, I told ya. :D

http://losi.com/Products/Features.aspx?ProdId=LOSA17757

[racer357]

Mid December? They look realistic like and american racer 1:1 Sprint car right rear tire. Mid December? I am glad it rains too much here to race!! LOL!

[Hconcepts]

Mid December?? Thats doesn't give us much time before the chilli bowl!!!

[Doug Gaut]

Brian, the performance and handling is equal to the current tire but with more stability in and out of the groove so you will not have to adapt much if any. Bolt them on and go.

[Gary NJ]

I rebuilt my diffs. yesterday and had a very hard time removing the silicone grease from the housing and internal componets. Does any one have a prefered technique or cleaner that removes the silicone?

I use a GMK Supply Diff Dunker...makes the job easy ;)

[Gary Kyes]

Most of you now know about the DLM2 tires by now. Here is some information that will answer some questions you have probably been thinking about.
-These will come only mounted on new stiff WHITE rims.
-There will be only one compound.
-These should be available before the end of the year.
-There should not be a shortage of these tires unless we get a sudden surge in sales at which point there will be only a short wait.
-We are still learning this class of racing but will try to keep a generous stock of these on hand.
-Since they are not diectional you can move them from side to side and front to rear to get more laps out of them.
-These were not designed or developed to be faster than the current tires although they could have easily been. It was actually a greater challenge to match the current grip level although in time I'm sure you guys will find a tenth or two.
-They are more forgiving and easier to drive. If you miss the line you do not slide out to the wall - you can drive a higher line. This should make for better side by side racing and allow the dufferent ability levels to run together without contact.
-They are also very easy on the track surface and leave the track in good condition for the 1/10 scale cars.
-Since these are so easy on the track you may find that they are more desireable than foams.

[JGray]

Good job LOSI. I am looking forward to getting mine. Will there be some to buy at the Chili Bowl Jr?

[Doug Gaut]

Thats the plan Jack. Come see me if you make it to Joplin this weekend.;)

[S&S RACING]

Hey guys new to the forum.just read the entire oval section alot of helpful stuff.

heres a cfew pics of my l8

doug need to get you down to greenville tenn to outback speedway to run on some red clay. we get a couple ofna guys here on the weekend. that way i can pick your brain...lol

[Randy Jones]

Nice ride. Wish I lived close to TN to race on some red clay. We ran at Clarksville in our dirt modified and it was a great time.

[losiracer22]

does the l8 take losi eight or eight 2.0 parts? i am trying to get some arms, gearboxes, aluminum bearing inserts. i have a losi 8ight screw kit left over from when i use to race offroad so that should do the trick.

[Doug Gaut]

SS Racing- Car looks fantastic. Would like to get down the MS/TN area some day for sure.

Losiracer22- The L8ight utilizes 2.0 parts other than the chassis plate.

[losiracer22]

how will my orginal losi 8ight screw kit work with the car, what will i notice i am missing?

[Doug Gaut]

Nothing different really comes to mind right now other than the original 8ight had a different setup on the outside steering link. It has a ball with a stud on the bottom that threaded into the steering arm where the new car has a standard captured end with a pivot ball and a bolt running through it.

[Gary Kyes]

Hi Shocker,
You aren't the first to ask this question. Since the original idea behind this class was to use existing 1/8 buggies without having to spend a lot of money on them we opted to follow the original concept. It seems that most of the santioning bodies are trying to match their rule packages to this general idea and we certainly don't want to buck the concept. There are some real inventive guys out there that are building LTO cars out of the L8IGHT and I understand they are very fast on high grip tracks. I see this as the formula one of late models. My conversations with racers is more along the lines of keeping the cars simple and have some tuning parts available to be able to meet the demands of various track conditions. The LTO guys are real exciting to watch and the speed is amazing. We want to support these guys but I thionk there are huge amount of guys out there that will jump into the rubber tire buggy based Late Model class if they only knew about it or had a track near by.

[rattlr2]

doug seen in your setups you run more antisquat on lr than right rear can you explain the advantages to that

[Doug Gaut]

I like to have a very free car in the corners but when I went to 2.5 deg anti-squat on both sides the car was too free getting into the corners so with the right side at 2deg the car is more stable getting in but still rotates well mid to exit with little to no push.

[dustymoe03]

Is there any way to get a kit car? I really want one and have full intentions but putting one together means more than buying a car ready to go. Any info? also I will be running on a concrete oval. Any one done this yet?

[Adam Sippel]

Hello guys and gals,
I just read this entire thread and am now ready for winter to be done with.

[rattlr2]

thanks doug

[Adam Sippel]

I want to take a second to give a big THANK YOU to Mr. Doug Gaut for all his help. He really is an awesome dude!

[eracer36]

hey doug i am a dihard losi fan but the guys a my track tell me i would be better off with the ofna do pro for our track wich is c&s in n.c. i want to step up to 1/8 late model what set up advice do you have..... it's not that they think i would not be competitive there just is not anybody to give set up advice.i would be the only losi car there......going to get something for christmas just wanted to get your thoughts......thanks...

[Doug Gaut]

eracer36: I wish I had some information for you from personal experience but I have never ran foams on my car nor have I used a sidedam. With that said I dont see why the car would not work as well as the Ofna car with the right changes. There are a couple of setups posted by Matt Murphy and Alan Webster on the main Losi site that would be a good place to start.
On top of the kit I would look at the stiffer spring package and the optional toe in mounts for the rear and the optional front arm mounts so you can change the anti-dive and overall roll center of the car.
Just out of curiousity I went with the optional mounts all the way to the top (1deg up) at a high bite indoor clay track with no other changes and the car would not turn period. The front end remained flat and had no transfer so I then dropped the mounts to the full low position (1deg down) and the car spun out if the front end did not bottom out meaning it rolled over so hard the front end dug into the track. I would probably start with the .5deg mounts in the upper position and the front camber link in the stock location with 7.5lb springs. If the front end still rolled too much you could raise the inside up even more to keep the car flat.
With the optional mounts in the rear you could actually take some rear toe-in out of the car if the stock 3deg was too much. In the rear I would probably move the inner camber link mount up one hole too and run 7lb rear springs to start. Lighter diff oils front and rear would also make sense due to the higher traction.

I hope some of this might help you in some way. The car is very tough and should make a great foam tire car.

[Doug Gaut]

Dustymoe03: I have not heard of the car ever coming in kit form. You could do what I do and just disassemble the car when you get it and built it back up. I am old school as well and like to build my own cars. ;) I have never heard of anybody running them on concrete or asphalt but I bet it would be fun.

Adam: Its my pleasure to help out fellow racers!!

[eracer36]

well my local track has said no nitro for the winter months has anyone ran this car with the electric conversion........

[SHACK]

I have with stunning success! I'm using the LOSI Electric Conversion Kit and a Tekin 2000Kv Truggy system on 4s and the *** thing is a rocket! I geared it 13/45 on about a 200ft run line hard pack track and it never even got hot to the touch. More torque out of the corrners than I thought was possible, have you ever seen an L8 pull the front wheels and hold them about 3/4" off the track the enitre length of the straight!:D

[Adam Sippel]

Hey SHACK,
Where did you get a 45T spur gear from?

On a side note, I had good success with my 21XP powered L8ight at Hutchinson, KS yesterday. Missed qualifying for the A by 2 seconds so I had to start P1 in the B. Swept the B and finished 4th in the A. I am now on a quest for more corner speed!

[SHACK]

I think the Electric Conversion kit comes with a plastic 45t spur. Let me double check on that but I'm pretty sure that's right.

[Adam Sippel]

That is what I assumed. I haven't had any luck with plastic spur gears on 1/8th scale cars.

[Gary Kyes]

Hey Guys...............
There's a new part coming you might really like. Check out LOSA4444. This is a two part center diff mount that allows you to remove the center diff from the top. I got to try one of the prototypes when I was working on the spool insets and it was a huge time saver. I could run come back to the pits and change the center diff and be back on the track within minutes.
I'm told these will be in stok within the next 7-10 days? I've already got mine on order.

[JGray]

Great idea. Will have to get one. Keep up the good work LOSI.

[Randy Jones]

Hey Doug or anyone else who could help. Anyone know of a good setup for high bite smoooth clay track? No side dams, and with rubber tires not foams. I have a setup on it now and am running it next week but would like to see another and compare.


Thanks

[Adam Sippel]

Gary,
Sounds like a great part. What a pain in the *** getting the center diff out!

[losibob]

I am new to dirt oval and currently have 3 cars 1 mafia do pro a new king headz chassis do pro and a stk losi l8. Out of all 3 the mafia turns like a mo fo with a little bit of tail wag. The king headz do pro is very smooth and balanced and the brand new losi is just out right a pos!!I run revo shocks and rc4less springs on the Mafia and the King Headz cars. I have tried all kinds of things to help the Losi. Rc4less springs different camber link positions different shock oils different droop settings different tires different size sway bars no sway bars different ride heights nothin really has made it feel solid. It is just unstable and very nervous compared to the mafia and the king headz do pro. It also likes to traction roll easy unlike the Mafia and the King Headz cars. Any sugestions other than sending to Tim Mcnutt for a conversion ??? That is probably the next thing on the list unless someone can point me in the rite direction


Thanks Bob

[losibob]

I heard a rumor that losi may be in the process of coming out with a offset carbon fiber 1/8 l8 chassis?? Is this for real??

[losibob]

Ok here is MY CURRENT SETUP

frt
toe 1/8 out
rideheight 20mm
camber -1 rf +1 lf
caster 18 degrees losi frt hinge pin braces with # 1 inserts down in frt and up in rear to achive 18 degrees
sway bar 2.7 mm
shocks 56 piston 60wt losi oil
spring rc4less rf purple 11lb lf green 10lb
droop lots
sterring ackerman long
bump steer up
camber link outer on hub
rf 1 on tower lf 5 on tower
shock location 5 on toiwer outer on arm
frt diff oil 125,000

center diff 50,000


rear
toe 2 degrees
antisquat 2 degrees
ride height 21mm
camber rr -2 lr +1
rear hub spacing rr back lr forward
sway bar none
shock piston 56 losi 40wt oil
springs rc4less rr purple #11lbs lr green #10lbs
shock location 5 on tower outer on arm
camber links rr 10-c lr 1c
rear dill oil 10.000

tires stk losi kit rubber


the car is just very darty and rolls over on the right side very easy and traction rolls. I have tried softer springs and it only got worse. Its almost like it needs 100 wt shock oil to slow down the twitchyness **** it sure doesnt feel as smooth as my ofna cars

[Doug Gaut]

Bob, you are comparing apples and oranges when you compare a bone stock L8ight to an offset chassis/revo shock car.

The weight on the L8ight is balanced left to right so you will get much more chassis roll with the stock car. The more left side weight the less side bite the car will have in general.

We have also found the lower the ride height the less side bite the stock car has. Anything in the 11mm-16mm will take quite a bit of side bite out. On loose dirt we run in the 18-26mm heights.

You can also raise the inner camber links all the way up if you want less chassis roll.

Another option would be to go with 56 pistons and much heavier weight oil in the shocks, 60-80wt range or higher if the bite is that high. Standing the shocks up all the way will help too.

What surface, what body rules, what tires are you guys running right now?

As for a carbon fiber offset chassis, I have not heard of this BUT you never know what the masterminds at Losi have in store for us. ;)

[losibob]

frt
toe 1/8 out
rideheight 20mm
camber -2 rf +1 lf
caster 20 degrees losi frt hinge pin braces with # 0 inserts in frt and in rear
sway bar 2.7 mm
shocks 56 piston 60wt losi oil
spring rc4less rf RED 9lb lf RED 9LB
droop 87MM
sterring ackerman long
bump steer up
camber link outer on hub
rf 1 on tower lf 1 on tower
shock location 5 on toiwer outer on arm
frt diff oil 125,000

center diff 50,000


rear
toe 2 degrees
antisquat 2 degrees
ride height 21mm
camber rr -2 lr +1
rear hub spacing rr BACK lr BACK
sway bar 2.7
shock piston 56 losi 40wt oil
springs rc4less rr White # 8lbs lr white #8lbs
shock location 5 on tower outer on arm
camber links rr 1c lr 1c
rear dill oil 10.000

tires stk losi kit rubber


WITH THIS SETUP THE CAR WAS VERY STABLE AND MUCH BETTER. IT STILL SEEMED TO NOSE OVER ON TO THE RIGHT FRT A LITTLE BUT NOTHING LIKE BEFORE I MIGHT TRY A LITTLE STIFFER RF SPRING TO SE IF THAT HELPS

[Doug Gaut]

Bob, you could try .5deg front arm mount in the down position giving the front end some anti-dive so to say, this will slow the chassis roll to the front end. I did not see your rear droop measurement on the setup but you can take some rear droop out of the left rear or both rear arms and this will keep more weight on the rear end and not allow it to transfer to the front end off power. You can make a car push doing this.;)

What were the lap times with this setup versus the old one? I think you will find if the front end does dive a little onto the right front you will have more corner entrance steering whereas if you go to say a 10lb spring on the right front you could gain too much push on entrance.

[losibob]

Rear droop is at 94mm and i changed to white 8 lb rear springs. As far as the frt inserts i tried #1s up in the rear and 1s down in the frt with the old setup. which made the arms more flat and took caster out of the car. So let me get this rite the more you angle the arm down in the frt the less the frt will roll or compress? Or is there a combination of rear inserts and frt inserts on the frt mounts that you can explain ??? Is Antidive just like Antisquart ??

Thanks Bob

[Doug Gaut]

You are correct on the anti-dive. (arms down in the front) Less weight transfer but if you go too far the car will not go through bumps.

I have experimented with 1deg up in the front and rear pivots on the front end which changed the roll center and the car did not turn on a super high bite track. Same thing goes if you run 1deg down in the front and rear pivots on the front arms, the car turns on a dime but dumps over way too much and is hard to control.

[draketrevor]

I got a leight for christmas and its together but what diff oil do i need to run? I know the stock oil wont be the right stuff. Is there any parts that i need to get off the bat to keep on hand?

[Chris K]

IF I remember correctly, you normally race at Joplin???

At any rate, here's a whole buncha' different set ups - grab one that most closely matches where you run and have at it for a starting point - any set up will require some 'adjustment' for your particular style of driving!

http://www.losi.com/Products/Support.aspx?ProdID=LOSA0809

Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jeff Harper]

Hello Drake, cool that you got a Leight!

Actually, if you are planning to race in Joplin, the stock diff oils are a very good starting point. When Losi decided on what diff oils the kit would be "prebuilt" with, they followed after what many of the racers found to be a good all around setup. That way, it would be good right out of the box! I raced many races with the stock oils!

[Jeff Harper]

The Losi Leight is a very good car as far as wear and parts failure. One thing stands out to me as to what will wear the fastest and need replaced the most often, I would say the front Bone. Keep an eye on that as you start to get some time on it.

I am sure some others will chime in as well.

Enjoy the car and I hope to see you in Joplin sometime soon!

[draketrevor]

Thanks Chris those will help alot. Also thanks to you Jeff,but how long do you run the oil before you change it? I hope to be running up front with you and Doug real soon.

Sincerly,
Trevor Drake

[Doug Gaut]

Trevor, thats great you have a Losi! Actually the stock diff oils (125K,50K,10K) are what many of us still run unless you want more aggression on power then go to 125K in the center diff. As for servicing the diff oils I try to change mine every 6-8 race weekends in the spring and fall but during the summer months I cut it back to 3-5 due to the high ambient temps. The main one to keep an eye on is the rear one. It takes the most abuse and breaks down the fastest.

[Doug Gaut]

You will also want to replace the stock plastic servo arm on the steering for an aluminum one and keep an eye on the rear diff carrier bearings. They tend to get dirt packed up in there and they also seem to take the most abuse due to side loads.
Look forward to racing with you this summer Trevor.

[draketrevor]

Thanks alot Doug. And best of luck to you and Jeff at the cbj.

[mowery1]

Is the Losi L8ight chassis a 2.0 chassis or the older 1.0??

[cruiser63]

Its the 1.0 chassis.

[mowery1]

So if a guy purchased an older 1.0 losi 8, what would he need to convert the buggy to the Losi L8 late model chassis?? Are the shocks, a-arms the same??

[cruiser63]

I started with an 8ight RTR 1.0.
I changed the shock towers rear shock bodies and shock shafts and put the Losi front bumber and the rear body mount.
From what I have read the L8ight has a 1.0 chassis and everything else is 2.0.

[eracer36]

i have the 2.0 buggy and wanting to do some oval racing.... how off would the set ups be and what would i need to convert??????

[draketrevor]

this might sound weird but has anyone every put their car on a set of scales to see what the percents are?

[sam]

mine is heavy on right side even with side board and 1mm offset hubs

[draketrevor]

then thats is like the complete opposite of a real racecar

[mowery1]

Would someone answer my question about what it would take to convert a Losi 1.0 or 2.0 buggy to a L8...Thanks, Rick

[cruiser63]

This is what I did......I started with an 8ight RTR 1.0.
I changed the shock towers rear shock bodies and shock shafts and put the Losi front bumber and the rear body mount. And put a body on it.

[mowery1]

Went ahead and bought race roller......

[dirtracer20]

this might sound weird but has anyone every put their car on a set of scales to see what the percents are?
its not weird i put my mini late model on scales

[Rookie]

Would someone answer my question about what it would take to convert a Losi 1.0 or 2.0 buggy to a L8...Thanks, Rick

This question might do better in the Nitro offroad section. as far as the differences and what it would take to convert you will need the following:

* 2.0 chassis Plate
* 2.0 front and rear shock towers
* 2.0 front and rear shocks
* 2.0 radio tray
* 2.0 center diff linkage set
* 2.0 Diff cups
* 2.0 body
* 2.0 mudguards ( unless you dremel out the v1's to allow the throttle servo being moved over)

[losibob]

Having Raced full size cars Scales are vital in setting up your car. So i am very surprised more people dont use scales for Rc racing. I looked around for someone that makes a good set of Digital Rc size scales and Havent found much. Anyone know of a good set out there??? I am thinking of using Digital food scales and then doing the math to figure the percents . Has anyone weighed there Losi L8 and if so what kind of numbers did you find? Total weight Left side Rear and Cross???


Bob

[Lars Johnson]

what it would take to convert a Losi 1.0 or 2.0 buggy to a L8

If anyone needs a list still:

Necessary:
Shock Towers (Alum) - LOSA1717 (F), LOSA1738 (R)
Graphite shock towers are available - LOSA1718 (F) and LOSA1739 (R)
Body Mounts - LOSA4465
Front Bumper Set - LOSA4466
Foam Front bumper - LOSA4467
Late Model Body - LOSA8096
Rear Spoiler kit - LOSA8134
Gray Springs (Front) - LOSA5455
White Springs (Rear) - LOSA5454
16T Clutch Bell - LOSA9119
DLM2 Tires - LOSA17757
If you're converting an existing buggy, the L8ight Rear Shocks are just Buggy front shocks - LOSA5401 (bodies, 42.6mm bodies), LOSA5411 (shafts, 4 x 50mm). If you need new caps/bladders/pistons etc, all the part numbers are Here (L8ight) (http://www.losi.com/Products/RelatedParts.aspx?ProdID=LOSA0809&Category=Parts+Listing&SubCategory=) and Here (8ight Buggy) (http://www.losi.com/Products/RelatedParts.aspx?ProdID=LOSA0804&Category=Parts+Listing&SubCategory=).

Good to haves:
High Rate Spring kit - LOSA5448
15T Bell - LOSA9118
17T bell - LOSA9121
18T bell - LOSA9122
46T center diff gear - LOSB3560
47T center diff gear - LOSA3517
Depending on your track size, you may want to gear it differently. The 17 and 18 use 2 of the larger 5x13x4 clutch bearings both inside and out.

As mowery1 did, it's probably going to be cheaper to just get a L8ight Race Roller, you can find them for under $400 right now. You'd get all new bearings, no worn plastic pieces from your buggy, and the L8ight Race Roller actually comes with the updated 2.0 battery tray and throttle linkage, 2.0 rear gearbox and inserts, and the 2.0 tank.

[mowery1]

Ran my new L8 today for the first time....Everything was just as it came from the factory. Installed a Dynamite Platinum XP for power....Got the motor broke in today..Now for chassis adjustments... Car seems to push in the corners pretty bad...Plan on leaving factory shock and diff fluids the same for now...Probably need to get some different springs.....Not sure whether to go heavier or lighter to get the push out...Using a new C&M body and the right front corner of the body kept dragging...Got some work to do before next weekend....Any set up tips appreciated..

[Joe F]

We just moved the body mount up as needed for the right front corner of the body. Are you running a side *** or spoiler?

[losibob]

I not sure why Losi put such a soft setup on the L8 But The first thing you need to do is get a set of Rc4less springs and change out the shock oil tom some where around 80 wt Frt and rear Then the sky is the limit I would look at offset chassis and King Headz rear arms to take the rear toe out of it That should be a good start on helping it turn

[Doug Gaut]

losibob, because the car was tested and setup to conform to the NSCS style of loose dirt racing with low cost cars in the midwest close to two years ago. On tracks that there is loose dirt you will not want a super stiff setup or a full blown offset chassis as these things remove chassis roll and traction. Now that the class is catching on in other areas of the country the tracks are very diversified as are the rules so in your area you will have to find out what the rules package is as well as what the tracks have for traction.

[losibob]

You Would Know Better than I would about Loose track setup as I run on a very high Bite Clay Track with a 240ft Runline Laptimes are 6.5seconds or faster even in the 5s So here is the Question ?? Why Doesnt Losi Put up some setups for These High Bite Clay tracks??? Or Maybe even offer some parts more suited for High Bite Tracks? Here in California I would say we could use that info.

Thanks Bob

[fstnv1]

I was just checking to see if the DO LM is based of f of the 1.0 Buggy and if the parts will interchange from a 1.0 buggy to the LM thanks

[losibob]

The only things that are the same as the 1.0 buggy are the shocks the chassis and the rear center drive shaft everything else is 2.0 buggy or losi late model

[S&S RACING]

quick question im converting one of my L8 nitros to brushless using the mamba monster combo. ive read were people are doing it and running a 13/45 gearing. is it possible to run the 48t center diff and if so what pinion should i run. track is around 250ft runline or so.. any help would be greatful.

[fmdd01]

Has anyone have the setup sheets for this years JR yet???

[Matt Murphy]

I will try to get my Chili Bowl Jr. setup sheet back to LOSI and posted this week.

Sorry for the delays.

Matt

[Matt Murphy]

LosiBob,

The L8 has proven very competitive in both loose dirt and high bite conditions.

Allan Webster finished second at the BIG BILLS MONEY RACE last year with his L8. This has been the biggest 8th scale LM race to date, with 75 plus entries, and it used open rules.(offset chassis, sidedams, one way diffs, foam tires, etc.) I also was 5th with my L8.
Both of our cars were basically stock with just a few minor tweaks including LOSI Hi-Rate Springs, different shock pistons, and a sway bar change.

The setup we used is posted on the LOSI site for everyone to see.

To say that you need to buy an offset chassis to compete simply is not true.

Losi has played with an offset chassis, but with race results like we have had, I do not see the need for one. (this does not mean they will not release one)

I hope you and some of your racing buddies can make it down to the Dirt Oval Shootout race at Madera (CVR) in April. I would love to meet you guys and race against you.

I look forward to rubbin fenders with everybody on this forum!

Happy Racing!

Matt

[losibob]

LosiBob,

The L8 has proven very competitive in both loose dirt and high bite conditions.

Allan Webster finished second at the BIG BILLS MONEY RACE last year with his L8. This has been the biggest 8th scale LM race to date, with 75 plus entries, and it used open rules.(offset chassis, sidedams, one way diffs, foam tires, etc.) I also was 5th with my L8.
Both of our cars were basically stock with just a few minor tweaks including LOSI Hi-Rate Springs, different shock pistons, and a sway bar change.

The setup we used is posted on the LOSI site for everyone to see.

To say that you need to buy an offset chassis to compete simply is not true.

Losi has played with an offset chassis, but with race results like we have had, I do not see the need for one. (this does not mean they will not release one)

I hope you and some of your racing buddies can make it down to the Dirt Oval Shootout race at Madera (CVR) in April. I would love to meet you guys and race against you.

I look forward to rubbin fenders with everybody on this forum!

Happy Racing!

Matt

Hi Matt I am planing on running the CVR race in April If you are going to be there I will Look you Up. As far as the L8 Me and 3 others all tried to get the Stk Losi Chassis to work for us with no luck. we tried all kinds of different shock and spring setups as well as different camber link settings different anti squat and anti dive Droop settings No matter what we did the car wanted to nose over on the right frt and lift the left rear But after switching to The Offset Chassis all of these problems were gone

Now you have to remember the track that We run BRC in Brentwood ca is very High Bite Clay Provably as much Bite or more Than Pavment So Never having ran on any kind of loose dirt I have no idea how the Stk Chassis is other tracks.

Thanks Bob

[mowery1]

Been running my L8ight a few times and still having touble getting to handle correctly....The problem I'm having now is getting it to turn....I purchased the losi spring kit and changed my right front shock spring to purple thinking that might help after reading some of the pro set-ups on the losi site. I'm still using stock shock oil and pistons. Moved the rear shocks to a lower hole on the rear shock tower per one of Dougs set ups whic raised the rear of the car (Could be causing the push).......Anyway, Some expert advice would be helpful here...I'm running it again on Saturday and would like to get it dialed in....Thanks,

[Matt Murphy]

Raising the rear will increase steering, however, the stiffer RF spring is meant to tame down the steering. You basically made two adjustments that counteract eachother.

The most Important setting on the car is droop. If you moved the shocks without matching Doug's droop settings, you actually are doing more bad than good towards getting the car dialed.

With the new DLM2 tires, I have stiffened up my rear springs, Softened my fronts, and increased droop on all 4 corners by around 2mm. I am also running my front shocks on upper hole #4 which lays the shock down, making it effectively softer.

NOTE: YOU MUST FOLLOW DROOP SETTINGS IF YOU ARE RUNNING ANY OF THE SETUPS ON THE SETUP PAGE. DROOP IS EVERYTHING ON THESE CARS.

I have read numerous posts on all the sites about handling issues, and people never mention there droop. When people ask for help, thats the first information I ask them for. "WHAT ARE YOU RUNNING FOR DROOP?"

Hope I helped you out,

Matt

[mowery1]

Matt, Thanks for the reply...I'm running stock springs, shock oil and all around with the exception of the right front shock. Right front shock has the stock oil and piston but the purple spring. The droop is whatever came stock on the car....I've never messed with droop before and didn't know it was a critical set up factor...This is a rookie question, but how do you adjust the droop on the L8 and do I need to go back to the stock spring on the right front shock?? Thanks Matt for the replies and help!

[mowery1]

Just checked the set up sheets and there are no droop setting on the set up sheets unless I'm missing something....

[mowery1]

OK....Found out how to adjust droop..Now what are you pro guys running for droop on your cars let's say for a medium bite smooth track using the new Losi DLM2 tires...I had no idea this was such a critical adjustment..Thanks Matt for opening my eyes on that one....

[Doug Gaut]

Mowery1,
I just measured the old GRP tires and they had an overall circumference of around 101mm and the new DLM2 tires are right at 103mm so whatever setup you chose to run that used the old tires you will need to add 1mm to the shock length/droop setting. Now, we have found the DLM2 tire to have more forward bite than the GRP tire has so here are a few things you can do.
Add more droop to the rear which will transfer more weight to the front end. I normally have more droop in the left rear than the right rear because once you allow the weight to tranfer you will still want the left rear tire touching the ground. Same in the front.
You can also remove some rear toe in if you have the adjustable rear mounts to less than 3deg.
One other thing that is commonly overlooked is the size of the rear spoiler. Depending on your setup and track bite most of the time we are running between 1 3/4" to 2 1/4" rear spoilers, nothing more.
Another thing you can do is drop the right front camber link to location #2. I have found this location to give more steering on looser dirt surfaces.

[Doug Gaut]

OK....Found out how to adjust droop..Now what are you pro guys running for droop on your cars let's say for a medium bite smooth track using the new Losi DLM2 tires...I had no idea this was such a critical adjustment..Thanks Matt for opening my eyes on that one....

Matt is right about the droop settings. This is the first thing we normally change before anything else when going to a different track. If your car is pushing on entrance give the rear more down travel/droop so more weight can be transferred to the front end. If the car is loose getting into the corners remove rear droop to keep more weight on the rear tires. If you are loose on corner exit allow more droop in the front arms which adds weight transfer to the rear tires hooking the car up more. If you have a push on exit remove front droop which keeps more weight on the front tires giving you more steering. These are just generalized tips.

[Doug Gaut]

Mowery1,
Can you give us some more ideas as to what the surface is like, what motor you are running, what clutch setup you are running, what body you are running and size of the rear spoiler?

[Matt Murphy]

Mowery,

Doug is spot on with his advice...he has helped me get a grasp on what is going with these 8th scale beasts...and now I feel I have a good understanding of these cars.

Droop is always on our setup sheets, but sometimes is listed on the shock length bar... They are one in the same. Your droop screw setting changes the shock length. I build my shocks to a standard length with no internal or external limiters(which are unnecessary due to the droop screws) by threading the lower eyelet up to the end of the threads. Then your Droop or shock length are set by the droop screws.

Normal front droop numbers are between 84 and 90mm. Rear droop numbers are usually between 92 and 98mm. Look for numbers in this range on the setup sheets and you will know where we run them.

For the most part, with the kit setup, you can get your car 95% dialed in with only making droop adjustments.

And to be honest, my Race Roller came with the droop all messed up on all four corners, so be sure to check that A.S.A.P.!

Dougs car and my car at chili bowl ran similar lap times, but we got there with very different setups. My setup will be posted soon, and I ran an extremely different differential setup than we normally would run, but It seemed to really bring my car to life at The Chili Bowl.

I will continue to push everyone to download and study the tuning guide Losi has put together. It is filled with pages of very useful setup advice, and explanations of what each change will do for you.

Matt

[mowery1]

Thanks to Matt and Doug for the help..I'm taking the car to a big indoor track this Saturday to work on the set up and hopefully get it dialed in..I'll work on the setting you have recommended...Thanks again! Rick

The motor I'm using is the Dynamite platinum .21
The clutch is as it came from the factory.

[losibob]

Mowery,

Doug is spot on with his advice...he has helped me get a grasp on what is going with these 8th scale beasts...and now I feel I have a good understanding of these cars.

Droop is always on our setup sheets, but sometimes is listed on the shock length bar... They are one in the same. Your droop screw setting changes the shock length. I build my shocks to a standard length with no internal or external limiters(which are unnecessary due to the droop screws) by threading the lower eyelet up to the end of the threads. Then your Droop or shock length are set by the droop screws.

Normal front droop numbers are between 84 and 90mm. Rear droop numbers are usually between 92 and 98mm. Look for numbers in this range on the setup sheets and you will know where we run them.

For the most part, with the kit setup, you can get your car 95% dialed in with only making droop adjustments.

And to be honest, my Race Roller came with the droop all messed up on all four corners, so be sure to check that A.S.A.P.!

Dougs car and my car at chili bowl ran similar lap times, but we got there with very different setups. My setup will be posted soon, and I ran an extremely different differential setup than we normally would run, but It seemed to really bring my car to life at The Chili Bowl.

I will continue to push everyone to download and study the tuning guide Losi has put together. It is filled with pages of very useful setup advice, and explanations of what each change will do for you.

Matt

Matt I guess I see how you can use the Droop screws to try manipulate the amount of down travel to help keep weight on a certain corner or end of the car. But it seems like that is a crutch to make a non purpose oval car work sorta.

Answer me this why is it you look at 1/10 oval cars and most are heavily offset to the left?

Real Oval cars dont use Droop to make them Handel. They use weight placement and shocks and springs. That is the more realistic method that I believe in. By changing the weight placement and shock and spring setup seems to me to be more balanced to me. Put your stk Losi Chassis car on a set of scales and tell me what the weight percentages are. An oval car needs left side weight. How much depends on the surface you run on Loose tracks need less high bite tracks need more.

I guess the droop method works to make the most out of what the stk chassis is all about but Losi would be better off making an offset Chassis (Carbon Fiber preferably) and market it as a Tuning option for High Bite tracks also they could look into making a 1/10 touring car shock tower and shock conversion as that also works very well. There really is no need for the huge 1/8 buggy shocks that are on the car.

Just my 2 cents

Bob

[Matt Murphy]

Bob,
Droop Screws are absolutely not a crutch. It is a very easy, quick way to adjust your shock lengths. You are mistaken if you think full scale dirt late model racers do not adjust the way the car travels to make it handle differently. Your comparison to full scale race cars also fails to look into the scale aspect of what we are doing. At chili bowl, we had 1:8 scale late models doing 30+ mph on a 150 ft runline track. If you do the scale conversions, we went the equivalent of a real latemodel going 240 mph on a track smaller than 1/4 mile.... Imagine a dirt late model turning 4.40 second laps at your local 1/4 mile dirt track.

Now that you understand how completely different our cars are than real DLMs, you need to imagine what is required to make that car get around the track at such speeds. Real Dirt late models weigh 2300 lbs.... that is the equivalent of 287.5 scale pounds.... our cars weigh 8.5 lbs, which means each tire has significantly less weight pushing down on it creating traction. Another major factor is we have much less weight to transfer.... thus making droop screws and the ability to change and control the transfer of weight that much more critical. Crutch? I think not.

This was written by Scott Bloomquist, one of the greatest DLM racers and builders of all time, and taken from Circle Track Magazine:
"Dirt cars need different concentrations of weight at different points on the track. Going into the turn, left-side weight should transfer to the right-side tires to produce side-bite, which makes the car take a set (stop sliding). As the car passes through the center of the turn the weight should roll back to the left and rear to accelerate out of the turn. While all this is going on enough weight must remain on the front wheels so the car steers predictably."

So in your eyes the L8 is not a purpose built oval car? Apparently the shock towers and bumpers/body mounts, body were not designed specifically for the purposeof racing on an oval??? This car has many many hours of testing, design and development to become a viable oval racing machine.... yet you want to say it is not a real oval car? Somehow, slapping a different chassis plate (1component) on the Losi car (which somehow now makes it a King Headz or Dynotech or Backlash car??) makes it an oval car?

In the same article mentioned above, Bloomquist states that he runs usually between 50-55% Left side weight... To think that those numbers are not attainable with the stock L8 chassis is silly. At the Chili Bowl, which was completely rubbered over by the mains, I ran 53% RIGHT SIDE weight. My car ran equal to the fastest lap times turned all week long. That was a HIGH BITE track.

You Said this:
"Real Oval cars dont use Droop to make them Handel. They use weight placement and shocks and springs. That is the more realistic method that I believe in. By changing the weight placement and shock and spring setup seems to me to be more balanced to me. Put your stk Losi Chassis car on a set of scales and tell me what the weight percentages are. An oval car needs left side weight. How much depends on the surface you run on Loose tracks need less high bite tracks need more."

All droop is, is a way to adjust your shocks and springs to make your car handle.....

Offering an offset chassis as an option part for tuning is not a bad idea, and it may happen. By saying that offsetting your car is a better way to make your car an oval car than using droop screws really just means you do not understand the purpose, value, and ease of using droop scerws to your benefit. People spend hundreds of dollars to send their L8 to people who then put a carbon fiber chassis on, throw the droop screws away, and put fuel line in your shocks to set the travel.... and now you have yourself a "TRUE OVAL CAR." And those cars work well on super high bite tracks that are smooth as a babies bottom...

TC shock options... I would not expect losi to even look into that. We believe in droop screws. A shock with 1/2" of travel couldnt possibly be used properly with droop screws, and we would be wasting one of our most valuable chassis tuning adjustments. 1/8th scale cars should have 8th scale shocks.

Why do you believe Carbon Fiber would be better than Aluminum chassis? In order to lay a carbon chassis with the kickup in the front end and have it out of a 4 or 5mm thickness as would be necessary, you would be looking at a $200 to $240 price tag for just the chassis alone. An aluminum chassis could be made and machined with lightening pockets everywhere for half of that, and the aluminum would never chip, fracture, or delaminate. If Losi does offer an Offset option chassis, look for it to be Aluminum for obvious reasons.

Matt

[losibob]

Matt you have to realize the track I run on Brentwood RC Speedway is smooth as a babys butt and has as much if not more bite than blacktop http://www.brentwoodracingclub.com/ So with that being said the setups that we run are basicly like a pavement stock car 55% ls Rf spring the stiffest on the car the left rear is the softest we dont slide the back end of the car one bit so the way we setup our cars is probably alot different than what you do. If you are going to be at CVR I will look you up and show you my car. As far as my theory and yours I would say you drive my car and you tell me what you think

[Matt Murphy]

I know about BRC... Been there before... If you go to their website, my car is pictured in the pic on the main background....

I will not say your setup will not work there. That is not where I am going, but if you utilized your droop screws, you could fine tune even further.

Are you running foam tires or DLM2's at BRC? I was told that any of the rubber tires or foam tires were legal there.

I certainly hope to get up there soon and work on some high bite setups....

Matt

[sam]

hey matt explain how you would get 55% left side weight with a stock losi thanks

[Matt Murphy]

Sam,
To achieve 55% Left side weight, you first would need to get a set of scales. First you need to weigh the car and add all four corner weights together to get your static weight. For discussions sake, we will assume 8.5 lbs. which is the norm as far as rules go.... Then you need to figure 8.5 lbs. and convert it to ounces.... which brings us to 136 ounces..... then we need to divide the toatal weight(136oz.)by 55% which gives us 74.8 ounces.

Now that we know 55% of the chassis weight is equal to 74.8 ounces, we need to use the scales and tweak the car until the Left Front and Left Rear combined corner weights are right around 74.8 ounces. Realistically, you will have more rear weight, so we will just say we are shooting for 40 ounces on the LR, and 34.8 ounces on the LF. To attain these numbers you may need to run stiffer springs on the left side and/or Use the shock collars to jack some more weight into that corner of the car.

So this is an explanation of how to get 55% left side weight....However let me be very clear... I do not ever set my car up to have a certain left side percentage. This number means nothing to me, as left side weight means about 10% as much as cross weight does. Adding Cross Weight adds traction and stability to the car. Cross weight is added when you increase the amount of weight to the RF and LR corners of the car, or reduce the amount of weight on the LF and RR corners of the car. To take out cross weight , you do the opposite changes, which takes bite out of the car and frees the chassis up. CROSS WEIGHT IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than is Left Side Weight.

Cross weight percentages and left side percentages are very technical ways of figuring out where your chassis is setup wise, but we do not go this into depth when scaling a car. Typically we will deal with the Rear end as a package and the front end as another seperate package, and dial in our cross weight this way.

To scale a car the way I do.......
Put your chassis on the scales, and push the chassis down a few times to settle the chassis into its static ride height. Now look at the rear weights only. We start with the LR between 1 and 8 ounces heavier than the RR(depending on available traction: more bite=less split. lower bite=more split). To add weight onto a corner of the car, add preload to that corners shock, or if you are more than 4-5 turns preloaded into the spring, go to the next hardest spring. You can add weight to a corner by doing the opposite to the opposite side of the car, so softening the RR spring or taking preload out of the spring will take weight away from that corner of the car and increase your rear split.

Once you have the rear where you want it, move to the front and do the same thing to the front to get your desired front end split. We will usually use anywhere between 4 ounces RF heavy to 4 ounces LF heavy depending again on available traction. Running your front end with the LF heavier than the RF will give your car more steering, but can make you loose on entry. Running the RF heavier than the LF will make your car smoother and more consistent, but have noticably less steering overall.

I suggest as a neutral starting setup as far as cross weights go, That you run 4 ounces LR heavier than your RR, and run your front end neutral with equal LF and RF corner weights. This should give you a good overall feel that is neither super aggressive, or super hooked up and lazy.

Using scales is not something that everybody needs to do, and you can just as easily dial yourself out if you do not know what you are looking for.I suggest that if you do decide to play with scales, that you take very thorough notes, so you can look back and understand what each change made and get an understanding of what you need to do to your car and when to do it.

Matt Murphy

[Matt Murphy]

So in case you dont wanna read my last super long post about scaling cars and figuring out weight percentages.....you dont have to scale your cars to go fast.

We don't get too caught up with scaling our 8th scales all the time, but if you ever get lost, it can help you find your way back.

Matt

PS...I DO NOT RUN A SPECIFIC LEFT SIDE WEIGHT PERCENTAGE!

[Matt Murphy]

I have emailed my setup sheet from the Chili Bowl to Losi, and it should be posted early next week.

If you would like a copy of it without having to wait, send me a P.M. or post here and include your email address and I will gladly forward it to you.

Matt

[mowery1]

Matt or Doug....On the set up sheets I noticed a setting for caster adjustment. How do you adjust the caster setting on the Losi L8ight??
Also noticed Doug using 100,000 weight and 120,000 diff fluid where can I get that weight diff fluid. Losi only has 125,000 from what I've seen on Horizons website.
Would you also post the part numbers for the different sway bars (2.6 and 2.3) I've seen on the set up sheets.
Doug used a light blue spring on his set up sheet and can't find those in a Losi part number. Thanks for the help!

By the way, I worked on my droop settings at the track yesterday and it made a HUGE difference in the handling of the car....Thanks Matt and Doug for the help!!

[Doug Gaut]

Losi does have some 22deg caster blocks but thats the only option we have right now. There is one thing that affects the caster and that is the amount of kick-up you run. I normally run a .5deg front pin mount in the lower position in the front of my car to give it a little anti-dive. This also takes some caster out of the car and helps it turn in.

We did not have 125K Losi diff fluid at that time but now I just run 125K in the front and the middle.

As for sway bars, get the LOSA1750 which is the sway bar set for the original 8ight. It has all the optional bars we use.

The light blue spring is actually the purple 6.5lb spring in the high rate kit. At the 2009 Chili Bowl Losi had rushed production on a batch of high rate springs and gave them to all racers that had Losi cars. Since they did not have time to get them painted they had a small colored sticker on them that does not match the final paint colors. I ran the 6.5lb purple springs in the rear and 7.0lb orange spring in the front.

Hope this helps.

[mowery1]

Doug, Will I need to get the front and rear adjustable hinge braces to do the kick up adjustment on the front and adjust the anit squat on the rear of the car??
losa1754 front
losa1755 rear

[Doug Gaut]

Yes you will.

[Matt Murphy]

The rear adjustable pivot is a super valuable tuning aid, and I suggest that you start with this piece as far as aftermarket parts go. The front adjustable pivots can help you change initial steering reaction, and are also nice to have, but I always suggest the rear first, front second.

Matt

[mowery1]

Thanks for the help!! Just ordered the parts for the front and rear...Might as well get them both..Ordered the sway bar kit as well...Thanks for the help once again!

[fmdd01]

Could u email me your setup for the jr would be appreciated thank you

fmdcomputers@verizon.net

[Matt Murphy]

FMDD- You got mail!

Matt

[losibob]

Matt Im going to try a straight up Losi L8 Could you E mail me that setup vwbob16@hotmail.com


Thanks Bob

[Matt Murphy]

Bob,
You Got Mail,

Matt

[Sparky ST]

Doug, can you tell me how the L8 oneway diff works? What I'm hoping for is that the diff allows forward drive but not braking to the front wheels, but looking at the option parts for this diff I think it might only drive either the left or right front wheel depending on which side the oneway insert is installed. Does this diff limit all driving force (think forward drive and braking using a losi e kit) to one side or direction?

What I'm hoping to do is use this diff in my e converted losi 8ight-t 1.0 to put all of the braking force to the rear wheels, but still have forward drive the front and rear.

I realize that this is a little off topic being an L8 thread and appreciate your help with this.

[Matt Murphy]

The front one way will lock up on power, acting like a spool, but freewheel off-power.No braking force will be applied to the front wheels. However braking stability will be almost non existent. A one way is ideal for high bite mconditiond that require tons of steering, and do not require braking control. If you do try the one way, I suggest you are very careful with the amount of brake input you give your car.

Matt

[Sparky ST]

Thanks Matt,

So if I have this right

On power front wheels will be driven forward together (essentially locked), increasing forward traction and on power steering.

With the car traveling forward but with the center differential stopped (direct drive motor braking with the e kit) the front wheels will freewheel, increasing turning ability at the expense of stopping power, with potentially drastic oversteer under hard braking. I'm thinking of a hand brake turn for every turn.

Off power turning would be fairly sharp with the one way front diff freewheeling.

Do I have this correct? Does is work like the smartdiff with drive in one direction only? Can the one way action be tuned? What I'm trying to avoid is the front plowing through the corner under hard brakes, where the nitro's are braking late, pitching the car in sideways and accelerating out of the turn.

I'm sorry to bug you guys with this again, I'm very much a noob with rc tuning, prior to this I have only bashed with 1/10 electric and as such I can make a car go fast in a straight line but getting one to turn fast consistently on and off power/brakes is very much new to me.

Thanks for your help

[losibob]

Matt on the chili bowl setup that you e mailed me what if i were to change only 1 thing ? Take out the regular front diff and run the smart diff?

Thanks bob

[Matt Murphy]

Bob,
I have not tried that setup with a Smart Diff. They are not legal at the Chili Bowl.

I would try the complete setup FIRST, and then vary away from it slightly if you choose.

Smart diff up front will make the car STEER very hard. Not sure that you want that.

Honestly, I have heard many guys complain about the setups we have posted on the website over the last year, and in EVERY SITUATION i have taken their cars and found that they only put half the setup on the car. These cars basically have like 20 adjustments on them, and our setups offer ONE complete package. There are infinite possibilities, but unless you get the entire setup the way we ran it, you are not running our setups. Every setup on the site is a setup that we have come across, and felt comfortable with the speed, and consistency.

Matt

[losibob]

I agree with following the complete setup I just wondered what you thought the smart diff would do as i just got one

Thanks Bob

[losibob]

Bob,
I have not tried that setup with a Smart Diff. They are not legal at the Chili Bowl.

I would try the complete setup FIRST, and then vary away from it slightly if you choose.

Smart diff up front will make the car STEER very hard. Not sure that you want that.

Honestly, I have heard many guys complain about the setups we have posted on the website over the last year, and in EVERY SITUATION i have taken their cars and found that they only put half the setup on the car. These cars basically have like 20 adjustments on them, and our setups offer ONE complete package. There are infinite possibilities, but unless you get the entire setup the way we ran it, you are not running our setups. Every setup on the site is a setup that we have come across, and felt comfortable with the speed, and consistency.

Matt

Matt on you chili bowl setup I was wondering if the lf camber setting of -1on the LF is correct not +1 ? And also the Frt Diff oil is 10k not 100k Thanks Bob

[Doug Gaut]

Thanks Matt,

So if I have this right

On power front wheels will be driven forward together (essentially locked), increasing forward traction and on power steering.

With the car traveling forward but with the center differential stopped (direct drive motor braking with the e kit) the front wheels will freewheel, increasing turning ability at the expense of stopping power, with potentially drastic oversteer under hard braking. I'm thinking of a hand brake turn for every turn.

Off power turning would be fairly sharp with the one way front diff freewheeling.

Do I have this correct? Does is work like the smartdiff with drive in one direction only? Can the one way action be tuned? What I'm trying to avoid is the front plowing through the corner under hard brakes, where the nitro's are braking late, pitching the car in sideways and accelerating out of the turn.

I'm sorry to bug you guys with this again, I'm very much a noob with rc tuning, prior to this I have only bashed with 1/10 electric and as such I can make a car go fast in a straight line but getting one to turn fast consistently on and off power/brakes is very much new to me.

Thanks for your help

The front wheels work individually from each other meaning the left front can be held solid and the right front can be spun forward but will lock up when rotated backwards. The oneway action cannot be tuned.

I have ran the oneway on a medium sized dirt oval track and as long as the track was smooth and had decent bite the car was fantastic but the minute the track got a little rough or slick the car was very unstable and lets not talk about what happens in traffic. :eek: As for offroad usage I am not sure with the power of nitro engines if the bearings will handle the abuse. That would have to be directed to the offroad guys. For offroad your best bet would be the smart diff and just play with the springs to change how it engages and disengages. You can make it almost like a oneway with more durability.

[Doug Gaut]

Matt on the chili bowl setup that you e mailed me what if i were to change only 1 thing ? Take out the regular front diff and run the smart diff?

Thanks bob

With the smart diff you will want to play with the ramp springs to adjust how it engages mid to exit. It can be tuned to be really aggressive, almost more than a oneway or can be adjusted so that it engages much smoother but you also have the corner entrance steering that the oneway provides with brakes. If the track is smooth enough with good grip and good drivers a oneway is flat out sweet! Good luck with the Losi. Wish it was warm enough to do some outdoor racing but 25deg, nitro and frozen dirt does not mix well.

[losibob]

Doug or Matt

I have noticed on some of the offset chassis L8 cars that are out there they are staggering the inner camber links front and rear. They are raising the left sides as high as they will go and the right sides look like they are in the stk location alot lower. What does this do?? It appears to me that it would raise the roll center and move it to the right ??? I am not sure. What is your take on this? Also They are removing the Sway bars and using Different springs on all four corners or Ive also seen real stiff springs on the left and softer on the right It seems real weird But some how it must work for them ? Lets hear your thoughts on all off this


Thanks Bob

[Matt Murphy]

Matt on you chili bowl setup I was wondering if the lf camber setting of -1on the LF is correct not +1 ? And also the Frt Diff oil is 10k not 100k Thanks Bob

Bob,
The setup sheet is correct. -1* on the LF Camber. Front diff fluid is indeed 10K.
This setup is very different from everything else everyone is running, but it was the best my car ever felt.....

Matt

[Matt Murphy]

Doug or Matt

I have noticed on some of the offset chassis L8 cars that are out there they are staggering the inner camber links front and rear. They are raising the left sides as high as they will go and the right sides look like they are in the stk location alot lower. What does this do?? It appears to me that it would raise the roll center and move it to the right ??? I am not sure. What is your take on this? Also They are removing the Sway bars and using Different springs on all four corners or Ive also seen real stiff springs on the left and softer on the right It seems real weird But some how it must work for them ? Lets hear your thoughts on all off this


Thanks Bob


Bob, raising the links on the car will keep the car flatter in the corner. Dropping the links will make that end of the car dump over on it itself and transfer weight. This setup with the left side links raised and the right side links lowered effectively stiffening the left side, forcing all the weight transfer to the right side of the car.

My take on this..... I bet you don't want to hear this.....LOL..................OK, Here it is......

Lets go and put a chassis on our cars that moves all the weight to the left side, and then in an attempt to make the car work, lets tweak the camber links to get all of the weight back on to the right side.....LOL! Stiff Left side springs and soft right side springs are taking this effect much further.

Removing sway bars..... This is a tuning option that works best with stiff springs and very minimal ride height/shock travel. I do not like to go this route, unless I have to. At BRC, I may need to.....

Matt

[losibob]

bob, raising the links on the car will keep the car flatter in the corner. Dropping the links will make that end of the car dump over on it itself and transfer weight. This setup with the left side links raised and the right side links lowered effectively stiffening the left side, forcing all the weight transfer to the right side of the car.

My take on this..... I bet you don't want to hear this.....lol..................ok, here it is......

Lets go and put a chassis on our cars that moves all the weight to the left side, and then in an attempt to make the car work, lets tweak the camber links to get all of the weight back on to the right side.....lol! Stiff left side springs and soft right side springs are taking this effect much further.

Removing sway bars..... This is a tuning option that works best with stiff springs and very minimal ride height/shock travel. I do not like to go this route, unless i have to. At brc, i may need to.....

Matt


matt

what you explained is what i thought!! I am building a non offset car as i type lol i am going to mirror you setup and try it at brc i will let you know how it works out

thanks bob

[Matt Murphy]

My Chili Bowl setup is now posted.

http://www.losi.com/ProdInfo/Files/LOSA0809_2010ChiliBowl_MattMurphy.pdf

Matt

[Adam Sippel]

Which affects turn in more, softening the RF spring or LF spring?

[losibob]

which affects turn in more, softening the rf spring or lf spring?

SOFTENING THE the rf WILL MAKE THE CAR TURN softening the lf will make the car push

[Matt Murphy]

Softening the RF will aid turn in much more than the LF. Softening the LF can tighten up the car slightly, but depending on your overall package, can promote weight transfer to the front and aid steering a bit.

In general, use the RF to increase turn in(less preload) and to reduce turn in(more preload).

Matt

[Adam Sippel]

Ok, thanks for the answers guys!!!!!

[losibob]

Matt

A Friend of mine just bought a new L8 and the chassis is Different than mine the finish is not smooth like mine it looks more like a cast aluminum finish and the color is alot lighter Can you tell me what the difference is between the 2 ?? The new one is more like the RTR chassis if i am not mistaken


Thanks Bob

[Matt Murphy]

I have 4 chassis, and 2 are like you describe. I asked the same question, and Losi assured me they are just different batches of the same chassis.

Matt

[craigv65]

Do the new versions of the L8 race roller come with the dlm2 tires/wheels? if i order another one, how do i know if it will have the dlm2 tires/wheels? If not, does losi do anything about getting a new set of the dlm2 tires/wheels or do i have to go out and buy a set?

CV

[Matt Murphy]

Craig,
Honestly. Losi doesnt have control over what tires are coming in a L8 Race Roller, due to the nature of retail business. There is no telling whether you are getting a year old kit, or a recent one(only difference being tires). Some stores do not rotate stock..... even some distributors do not always do it. A shop could have sold 5 L8 Models last week that all came with new tires, and sell you a race roller that has the old tires.

I suggest, that if your car comes with the old tires, and you want new ones, call the Customer Service number and see if they will do anything for you. Some people may be willing to trade them, as many guys love the GRP tire on non-spec-tire tracks.

Good luck,

Matt

[Adam Sippel]

Doug, Matt, or anybody else with some insight:

Have any of you tried the short ackerman steering plate? If so what were your likes or dislikes about it?

[Doug Gaut]

I have ran the short plate. If you are on a small, tight track put it on and hold on as the car turns in so much more aggressive its not even funny but on corner exit the car can get whippy so you will need to be on the wheel. At a track like Joplin its not a good option but at a smaller track like Tulsa it works very well. If you put it on you will have to reset your toe-in of course.

[Adam Sippel]

Thank you for the info Doug!! I plan to try it at Adam's Creek on the 20th. I am going with a, what I would consider, radical set up. Softer springs on the right side F and R, low front ride height, low right side inner camber links. Basically my ideas are to jack as much weight onto the RF as possible. I have not had much luck getting an 8th scale LM to not push so I am trying something outside of the box. I would talk about what fluid I have in the diffs if I knew that info. I am still trying to procure all the neccessary fluids and parts and tools to make these big beasts go!

[cooter]

My ? to who ever might be able to answer. I just wanted to know if putting a one-way in the front of your l8 model will help in any way for a beginner? The reason i ask is because i just bought one thinking this would be the best way to go but now im rethinking because doesn't the front wheels suppose to help pull you out of the corners? I havn't been to the track yet because there isn't any open for l8 model around here yet.

[Matt Murphy]

Adam - Short ackerman plate = very quick steering reaction, and less stability. But yes more aggressive corner entry for sure. I don't like it....

Cooter - Front one-way, not usually a beginner friendly option. Will greatly increase turn in and steering all thru the corner. Not forgiving at all, and do NOT try and use brakes. I suggest a diff until you really get the feel for things, but try it and see what you think.

Matt

[cooter]

Thanks again Matt. I hope I'm not bugging you with all these dumb ?. Maybe someday we can meet on the track. Looking forward to talking to you more.

[Matt Murphy]

Dumb questions are the ones that you do not ask. Losi has put me and Doug in a position so that we can represent Losi and help out any and all Losi customers, and further improve your experience with Losi products. We love helping racers such as yourself, and feel it is our duty to try and help grow the sport.

It is our pleasure to help you guys out, and we get a sense of pride after helping somebody out. Never worry about asking us for help.

Matt

[sprnt22m]

Anyone know how to remove caster from the front of the 8ight? I should say what parts are available to do this? I know they make a spindle carrier with more caster but not having much luck finding something to put less caster in it. Pretty sure stock is 20 or 22 degrees with the stock hinge pin locators and that sounds like too much for oval. I've seen the $75 kingz adjustable carriers and they are nice but a bit spendy and we have a limited late model class so I'm not sure they will fly past the rules book either. Part numbers and manufacturers would really help out.

[Adam Sippel]

Anyone know how to remove caster from the front of the 8ight? I should say what parts are available to do this? I know they make a spindle carrier with more caster but not having much luck finding something to put less caster in it. Pretty sure stock is 20 or 22 degrees with the stock hinge pin locators and that sounds like too much for oval. I've seen the $75 kingz adjustable carriers and they are nice but a bit spendy and we have a limited late model class so I'm not sure they will fly past the rules book either. Part numbers and manufacturers would really help out.

Try this:
http://www.losi.com/Products/Features.aspx?ProdId=LOSA1754

[Matt Murphy]

Thanks Adam!

That is the part we use. You can reduce it 18 or raise it to 22 degrees of total caster. There is 10 degrees total in the kickup and 10 degrees more in the caster blocks. Losi also has 12 degree spindles available.

If you want less caster than that, King Headz caster blocks are the only way.

I usually run 20 on most tracks..... Why do you think less would be better?

On 10th scale cars we usually run between 20 and 35 degrees total caster.....

Matt

[Adam Sippel]

Matt,
Would the fact that these beasts are 4wd have anything to do with running less castor? Touring cars run just a few degrees of castor if I am not mistaken. Although the L8ight cars are off-road based. Just throwing some thoughts out there.

[Matt Murphy]

Yes 4 wheel drive cars can run less caster than 2 wheel drive cars, but more caster angle equals more stability. Unless you are running on "Super High Bite" tracks on Foam Tires, you would not want less caster.

Matt

[Adam Sippel]

Another question: What grease are you guys using inside the gearboxes of your L8ights? No in the diff itself but on the ring and pinion gears.

[Matt Murphy]

I use Losi's Smart Diff Grease on the ring and pinion gears and to seal the case halves and keep dirt out.

http://www.losi.com/Products/Features.aspx?ProdId=LOSA3607

Matt

[Adam Sippel]

Thank you sir! Got some on order!!

[Matt Murphy]

Adam,
Let us in on your crazy setup! What are you trying? Maybe Doug and I can try to predict how your car will handle with your crazy setup! That would be fun.....anything to bring my Next race day closer.....LOL.

[Adam Sippel]

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h112/04Xterra/crazysetup1.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h112/04Xterra/crazysetup2.jpg

Feel free to laugh and call me a crazy *******!! Muahahahahaha. Oh and feel free to give me some setup ideas.
The track will be a very flat loose dirt oval (Adam's Creek, OK)
http://www.dirtoval.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39563&d=1268544947

My goal for this setup is to get the car to turn into the corner hard.

[D.SPARROWII]

Almost everybody runs a different setup, Its all in how it feels to you. I know last summer when we went to Joplin I was way stiffer than most and I liked the way my car felt just had a little bit of a on power push, just had to let off a touch but yes that slows a guy down. Very excited yet nervous to get back down there on th 27th without tryn the sweet new tire. Iam hoping by giving a little more droop it will steer better. Either way This class is the most fun I have had in R/c since I had my JRX PRO when I was a teen LOL and racin in my uncles back yard.

[Matt Murphy]

Be sure to let us know how that "CRAZYNESS" works out....LOL. My bet is that you will be loose on power, and the car will be somewhat inconsistent....

Where are you measuring ride height from??? 1.67" rear ride height is insane crazy, but it may work for you.

I bet once you get the car to initiate rotation, it will be hard to stop rotating....

Just my thoughts from your setup sheet....

Good Luck,

Matt

[Adam Sippel]

Matt,
I cycled the suspension and measured from the ground to the bottom of the chassis. I have always kept my setups on the tame side and have always dealt with a push. This time I am going to start with a setup that looks like it will be loose and tighten it up from there.